Bad at math

[bromad1972]

I enjoy playing small stakes hold em but I am having a problem incorporating a lot of the mathematics to my game. I have never been very good at math and it takes me far too long to determine the correct number of outs as well as pot and expected odds during hands. I generally try and limp in to most pots with over cards and suited connectors if the table is loose and tighten up if the table is tight and/or has better players that make correct pre-flop raises etc. Is there a simple way to determine pot odds and outs without calculating the math in your head? Perhaps a cheat sheet or odds tables of sorts. I understand the statistics and odds but I need time to evaluate these things and it usually takes me several minutes to do that which slows the game an makes the fish quite angry. Any help?

[Xhad]

If you're playing live the first thing to do is to count the pot as you're playing, not calculate when you have a decision. And count it in BETS, not DOLLARS (round if you have to, take out the rake if you want). I don't include the blinds until after they've acted once because that makes the most sense to me, but YMMV on that one.

Example: UTG limps (1), UTG1 limps (2), you raise (4), 2 people colcall (8), the blinds fold (9; the SB's probably getting raked anyway), both limpers call (11). You should be thinking 11:1 before the flop even comes so if say you have KQ and the flop comes AT5 rainbow, you've already done the bulk of the work.

Second step is to memorize an odds chart. Then you can correspond your number of outs, and your pot odds should be easy to calculate as it's (potsize)/(number of bets you're calling). If you have fractional outs then just try to guess if it's close enough (if it's not obvious then the decision is close and probably doesn't matter that much anyway). So like if you're getting 7:1 and think you have 5.5 outs, 5 outs needs around 8:1 while 6 needs around 6.5/1 so you're probably all right to call if you don't think there will be any more raises.

[blackasthma]

Hire a female tutor with nice ass and big flashcards...

[Wada]

Immature comments really get us no where when it comes to someone putting out serious effort to learn.

To OP -
What would help is first just spend some time away from the poker table memorizing your odds to complete the draw. For instance, you have a flush draw and essentially 9 outs. 9 outs is approximately 4 to 1 from flop to the river, two cards to come. Memorize your outs to odds charts. Just look at it each day before you go to work, brush your teeth, sit on the crapper...etc.

Then deal yourself two cards and then the flop. Figure out what your outs are to complete. Do this over and over until you can just glance at the board and instantly know what your outs are. Sooner or later you will start to see that some of your outs will not be clean outs, such as drawing to a straight when there is a flush draw.

And if your playing live - do what that other poster said. Count the pot as people start betting, calling, raising in the sense of number of bets. Remember on the turn you have to convert small bets into large bets.

Do this every time you are out of a hand and then it will come naturally to you when you are in a hand.

Also it might help to just play online, one table, and do this. That way you can comfortably hide behind the computer screen and the other players will not know what you are doing. Once you get the hang of it, take it the live tables and you should be fine.

[HoneyBadger]

There's a nice counting system described in "Hold'em on the come". It seems really easy, even going as far as implied odds without too much effort.

[TheCount212]

Despite my nickname, I too am no math whiz.

Another good, simple way is to use the rule of 4 and 2. Counting your outs takes practice, but it's really not that hard and you just need to take the time to learn how. Once you have your outs counted (what cards are left in the deck that give you a likely WINNING hand), multiple the number of outs by 4 with two cards to come, and by 2 with one card to come. That number will be the percentage chance of making a winning hand.
For example, say you have AhJh and the flop comes unpaired with two hearts. You have 9 outs to the nut flush, or a 36% chance of hitting a winner. This means you can call up to 36% of the pot after the flop, and up to 18% of the pot after the turn.
For pot limit/no limit, there's a great chart in Phil Gordon's Little Green Book that spells out pot odds in the simplest possible terms, and it's based on the minimum number of outs you need and what percentage of the pot you're opponent has bet in front of you.

to call 1/4 pot= 5 outs w/ 2 cards to come, 9 outs w/ 1 to come.
1/2 pot= 7 outs / 13 outs
3/4 pot= 8 outs / 15
pot= 9 outs / 17
2x pot= 10 outs / 20

memorize that pronto...

[jesse8888]

[ QUOTE ]


To OP -
What would help is first just spend some time away from the poker table memorizing your odds to complete the draw. For instance, you have a flush draw and essentially 9 outs. 9 outs is approximately 4 to 1 from flop to the river, two cards to come.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this wrong? A 9-out draw is about 4 to 1 to hit on the very next card, and about 2 to 1 to hit with two cards to come.

[Wolfram]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


To OP -
What would help is first just spend some time away from the poker table memorizing your odds to complete the draw. For instance, you have a flush draw and essentially 9 outs. 9 outs is approximately 4 to 1 from flop to the river, two cards to come.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this wrong? A 9-out draw is about 4 to 1 to hit on the very next card, and about 2 to 1 to hit with two cards to come.

[/ QUOTE ]
The rule of 4 and 2 is crude but remarkably effective:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

990 games 0.016 secs 61,875 games/sec

Board: 3h 8h 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.364% 36.36% 00.00% 360 0.00 { AhKh }
Hand 1: 63.636% 63.64% 00.00% 630 0.00 { AcAd }


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[Cactus Jack]

I'm wretched at math, too. Here's a little crutch I picked up years ago that really has helped me get close enough. (Any closer and the decision really isn't enough one way or the other to break your bank.)

It's the Rule of 13

If your pot odds + calling odds are > 13 or more, you call.

If they add up to less than 13, you fold.

A flush is 9 outs. If you're getting 4:1 pot odds, you call.

A open-ended straight draw is 8 outs. If you're getting 5:1, you call. (4:1 is a close decision and you might call.)

It's not foolproof. A flush and straight draw with overcards--well, those alone add up to way over 13, so you better just call.

For those who insist that you bet a flush draw at 3.5 to 1, I said it's a dirty method, but it works for those of us not born with calculators in our brains.

[HoneyBadger]

A flush draw is easy: never fold it.