Does he have a hand?

chesspain · #1 06-04-2006, 09:14 PM

I'm sitting in the four seat on my BB of a 10-20 game at Foxwoods, and I look up to check out the Yankees/Orioles game. As I glance back down I see the action getting folded to the SB; he looks at me and says "Chop?"

I glance at the dealer and say "It's just the two of us?"

The dealer answers "Yes," at which point I look at my cards, see KQs, and turn them up in my hand to show my opponent. He half turns over his AJo, and we both chuckle.

Then, I look over and see that there are two cards, face down, in front of the ten seat.

"Does he have a hand?" I say.

The dealer gives a kind of "Oops" shrug, while the player in the ten seat, who is a cool, older guy, says "I was wondering what you guys were doing." I should note that he had a habit of keeping his cards close to rail and sometimes covering them with his hands. In addition, this was not the first time that action had passed by him because of his slowness and his inadvertant covering of his cards (I doubt he was trying to angleshoot). The older guy then says "I didn't see your cards," which may well have been true.

I respond, "But we [meaning the SB and I] have both seen each other's cards."

Now what?

Sponger. · #2 06-04-2006, 09:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
he looks at me and says "Chop?"

I glance at the dealer and say "It's just the two of us?"

The dealer answers "Yes," at which point I look at my cards, see KQs, and turn them up in my hand to show my opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obvious angle shoot by you. Had it been a good hand you would have said no.

private joker · #3 06-04-2006, 09:18 PM

Convince him to fold, let you guys chop, and move on to the next hand. He seems cool enough to do so.

Does he have a hand because he called/raised? Or had he not committed any preflop action yet? If it's the latter, then yeah convince him to muck and let you guys chop.

tom10167 · #4 06-04-2006, 09:45 PM

It's pretty clear he hasn't acted yet. Anyways, if he didn't want to muck his hand he deosn't have to do anything, not even call, the pot is his.

ericicecream · #5 06-04-2006, 09:45 PM

Action has passed him by already.

If that's not enough, he was wondering what you guys were doing yet didn't say anything until you were done. His hand is dead, move on.

In addition, if he allowed to act on his hand now, he'll never learn to act when it's his turn.

tom10167 · #6 06-04-2006, 10:01 PM

He has a live hand and the other two players have just shown eachother their cards.

Dead hands.

chesspain · #7 06-04-2006, 10:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He has a live hand and the other two players have just shown eachother their cards.

Dead hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) So it's irrelevant that the dealer answered "Yes" to my question "Is it just the two of us?"

2) Four players have acted past the player in seat ten without him saying a word or throwing out any chips. How does he still retain the right to act?

private joker · #8 06-04-2006, 10:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He has a live hand and the other two players have just shown eachother their cards.

Dead hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's irrelevant that the dealer answered "Yes" to my question "Is it just the two of us?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention the old man's angle shot by not saying anything when the dealer erroneously reported it was heads-up. Awarding the pot to the "live hand" in this scenario may be accurate to the rules, but the players should step in before the pot is pushed and convince old dude to muck and let them chop. 99% of live players will concede to this.

tom10167 · #9 06-04-2006, 10:12 PM

Yes. Why wouldn't it be?

If the dealer said "he folded" would that change anything? No, the guy didn't fold, the dealer just made a mistake, the dealer controls action, not determine it.(well not in this case anyways)

By the way who are you? Do you normally play 4-8 5-10 or the 10-20?

I'm Tom(short hair darkish skin) if you see me don't be afraid to say hi!

RR · #10 06-04-2006, 10:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sitting in the four seat on my BB of a 10-20 game at Foxwoods, and I look up to check out the Yankees/Orioles game. As I glance back down I see the action getting folded to the SB; he looks at me and says "Chop?"

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if your game was full. If your game was full the 1, 2, 3, and you in the 4 seat all acted on your hand. He has a responsibility to protect his action.

[ QUOTE ]
I glance at the dealer and say "It's just the two of us?"

The dealer answers "Yes," at which point I look at my cards, see KQs, and turn them up in my hand to show my opponent. He half turns over his AJo, and we both chuckle.

[/ QUOTE ]

This gives him another chance to speak up and protect his action.

[ QUOTE ]
older guy, says "I was wondering what you guys were doing."

[/ QUOTE ]

He saw you two chopping the blinds and didn't speak up. He should be protecting his action.

It appears he took no steps at anytime to protect his action and only spoke up after being asked directly if he had a hand. His hand is dead for failing to protect his action.