Playing QQ 2nd level vs three bet from sb preflop.

KhalynYohrk · #1 10-22-2007, 10:07 PM

This was in the sunday 75k gtd on Absolute. Is It better to be agg and rr or fold? Does anybody smooth call here? Can lay this down and wait in case utg or sb is on AA/KK? I'm curious to hear peoples thoughts about this spot.
Thanks

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t15/t30
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t4985
UTG+1: t3315
MP1: t3335
MP2: t4985
CO: t12760
Button: t6620
SB: t4585
Hero: t5505

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, MP1 raises to t90, MP2 folds, CO calls t90 (pot was t135), Button calls t90 (pot was t225), SB raises to t450,

KhalynYohrk · #2 10-23-2007, 12:10 AM

Is this forum super low traffic, is this a topic nobody gives a [censored] about or what?

Bond18 · #3 10-23-2007, 01:08 AM

I think this is call and i'm not sure what else we could do. 4 betting at these stacks seems very bad unless this guy is a HUUUUGE donk.

Todd Terry · #4 10-23-2007, 01:22 AM

Wow, this is a really [censored] spot. I think folding is the best option, the problems with calling are you're not closing the action preflop (MP1 could raise behind you or everyone could call, both of which are horrible results) and what to do if QQ is an overpair on the flop. Shoving is only getting called by a better hand, raise/folding is -cEV. I'm not saying that if I were playing I would actually fold here, because I wouldn't even think about folding.

KhalynYohrk · #5 10-23-2007, 01:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying that if I were playing I would actually fold here, because I wouldn't even think about folding.

[/ QUOTE ]
I really cant imagine smooth calling is that good of a line though, making a smalllish 4bet folding to a raise is pretty goofy and the big 4 bet is not +EV, is it?

Wish · #6 10-23-2007, 03:13 AM

I apologize in advance if my posting in this forum is stepping out of line. Since you don't know where you stand with your hand in an unusual spot, perhaps you can take an unusual line of thought to decide what to do, and consider it as a problem of playing for set value. Looked at that way, I think it's a fold. You'd be getting the right odds if one or more of the other players in the hand came along, but you'd be getting the wrong odds if they all fold, and you'd be throwing chips away if one of them 4bets. Since everything would have to go right for this to play profitably for set value, that suggests a fold.

KhalynYohrk · #7 10-23-2007, 03:20 AM

I am still annoyed by this hand, opon review I think it is a call and reevaluate otf, but I dont like it. What do we do when hu vs sb when he brings a 3/4 pot bet on a 953 flop, then another on a 4 turn? Shove in? I'm curious if the only way to not get vtowned by kk/aa is to just fold preflop, because is anyone folding an all under flop?

betgo · #8 10-23-2007, 03:27 AM

Yeh, I think if you call, you need to call him down on a low flop.

KhalynYohrk · #9 10-23-2007, 05:56 AM

How bad is a 4bet here?

schwah · #10 10-23-2007, 07:09 AM

pretty bad, you're basically only getting action when you're beat and you still have a LOT behind so he needs to be squeezing ridiculously often for it to be better than calling.

dont see how you can do anything but call imo.. folding is waaaay too tight.

if its HU to the flop you should probably be playing for stacks when an overcard doesnt flop... if the original callers follow you in its a bit more tricky. if the sb leads into 3 people its a pretty easy fold unless of course you flop a set. but with 3 other people in you've easily got set value (+ the hands where the sb checks and you're probably good).

also, don't play on abs.