turned GS OOP vs pf CCer

[yourface]

villain is 50/12/1.75 over 300 hands
he's pretty bad. limped KK utg 4 handed and slowplayed it to the turn, checked a set behind on the turn after being the pf and flop aggressor.

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
4 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (4 players) yourface is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">yourface raises</font>, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.5SB, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">yourface bets</font>, Button calls, BB folds.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4.25BB, 2 players)

[sharpie]

I always bet the turn but I'm guessing we have almost no folding equity, I'd expect ace high to call you down. Even if you bet the turn it's not like he's not gonna take it away from you on the river. I think I like check/calling the turn and folding the river UI.

[bobhalford]

Post deleted by bobhalford

[milesdyson]

bob you're out of position. i c/c c/f and hate these hands

[yourface]

but they matter right miles??!

I might fold out AX here but all his broadway hands are beating me or have a strong draw and his PPs are very likely not folding.

c/c is best here?

[milesdyson]

they matter. i think the real answer may be that betting is very slightly better than checking but probably way higher variance.

b/f is annoying because you have a gutshot + overcard. anything that bluff raises the turn is likely betting all rivers, too. so you can never win against a turn bluff raise unless you call and call the river, which you aren't doing. you are likely going to b/f, and this is easily the FTOP-incorrect move a significant amount of the time (at times it is a massive mistake - when he has QT or T8 for example).

if he just calls your bet and you check the river, you probably do not have enough hand to check call the river. the lamest thing is that he might actually "bluff" a hand with showdown value in that spot. what if you bet turn, he calls KQ or A2 or A4 and you check the river intending to pick off bluffs, and he bets these hands intending to bluff you off of AK? lol at getting owned, this is the worst feeling in poker, and it tilts me beyond belief.

i think we can all agree that the turn is getting bet a very large portion of the time when you check to him, whether he has QT, 87, spades, or any pair. the thing that the turn check may possibly do better than betting is it may get you to showdown a tad more often when you have the best hand (or even when you have the worst hand which is worth something psychologically). some people do give up on bluffs (probably depending on how they're running/feeling more than anything) when they see you c/c the turn. remember the KQ/A2/A4/showdown value hands i mentioned before? i think those check behind a lot more after you c/c the turn vs. after you bet the turn and he calls.

more important than these hands in a vacuum, though, is that you use the results of them to demoralize the idiot floater the next time you do get a hand. if this hand goes c/c, c/f, there is a good chance he's going to take the same line the next time you check the turn to him. so punk him. and don't forget to say something after you do it.

[yourface]

I don't like a b/f. the pot is 7BB and our pair outs can't be totally discounted.

yah the turn definitely gets bet near 100% of the time. such a sick spot.

I think my chat game needs improvement. usually I keep it to "wtf" when I see a mind bogglingly stupid play and "PASS THE SUGAR"/"SHIP IT CRUCIAL" when I win a key pot. sometimes I will trash talk with other TAG regs or chatty morons but that's more from boredom than anything else.