When to fire the second barrel?!

hennnerz · #1 07-29-2007, 07:55 AM

I'm having some trouble firing 2nd barrels. I cbet a lot and feel I may be getting floated. If I cbet and then check the turn I will make a note who call-flop then bet-turn. So the people who continuously do this against me I should double barrel from time to time right?

Who else would firing a second barrel against be profitable? Any examples or is it totally read specific? Any stats that can be relied on to help the decision to fire the 2nd or not...?

There doesn't seem to be alot on the subject, so if anyone has a good link then please pass it on.

cooker3 · #2 07-29-2007, 08:02 AM

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I'm having some trouble firing 2nd barrels. I cbet a lot and feel I may be getting floated. If I cbet and then check the turn I will make a note who call-flop then bet-turn. So the people who continuously do this against me I should double barrel from time to time right?

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Yep.
It is very read dependant, I am currently playing 50nl and against a unknown I wouldn't fire a 2nd barrell without a hand but if he is calling me a bit then I will much more. It is all about the reads you have on your opponant

Mr_Pathetic · #3 07-29-2007, 10:23 AM

If I fire flop and they do not fold and I do not think they hit and I see they will fold 2 flop bet 33 but fold to turn bet 60 I will fire both and get them on the turn more often then not. But you got to take into account if the board hit them or not. I do this often at NL 5 and it is profitable.

XxGeneralxX · #4 07-29-2007, 10:33 AM

not only does it depend on reads but it also depends on board texture. if its a board like K 7 2 rainbow (you have complete air) and your opponent calls your flop bet (u dont have read). You should be careful about 2 barrling. This is a great flop to c-bet but a terrible one to 2 barrle because not many players at the small stakes can fold TP. You need to give up after a c-bet on flops like this and punish your opponents when you have TP beat and extract max value.

I like to 2 barrle when someone is snap calling w/ weak draws, weak made hands, and NPND or whatever. When I put my opponents on these holding i will 2 barrle.

mvdgaag · #5 07-29-2007, 10:42 AM

cbet less.

I feel villains tend to float on low flops hoping you just have overs. Some float all the time, but against most villains they just caught a piece of the flop and you're not profitably second barreling.

By not cbetting all the time you increase the chances that you actually have a hand when you cbet, making floating an improfitable play for your opponents.

I like to second barrel when an overcard to the flop hits the turn, but only if I have the feeling I'm floated very often by this particular opponent and this is not a guy chasing aces. Most of the time you should give them credit for something IMO.

Hope this helps.

Capone · #6 07-29-2007, 11:11 AM

I think this is a concept that is very debated. I disagree with those who say c-bet less often. Heads up you should be c-betting VERY FREQUENTLY. In terms of double barreling if you put your opponent on top pair on a Kd10c2s board and the ace comes on the turn, that is the perfect card to double barrel on. It is quite easy to be very spewy when double barreling, so pick you spots correctly. For the most part if you have nothing on the flop and you try to take it down with a c-bet don't make a habit of double barreling without a good read.

mvdgaag · #7 07-29-2007, 05:54 PM

When I say less often I don't mean infrequently. Just don't cbet all the time. On very dry or very wet boards often its best not to cbet. On very wet boards you will get far more calls. On very dry boards too, because everyone seems to bluff at these and everyone knows that.
Cbetting with air is a bluff. And like all bluffs it should be properly balanced with the times you actually have the goods. If someone promises to always cbet and raises preflop with a not too nitty range you can get away with floating him a lot of the time. IMO cbetting all the time is a leak unless you're a nit and have AA or KK half the time (which balances your cbets as well, because it's hard to miss a flop with AA).

Antinome · #8 07-29-2007, 06:19 PM

I double barrel when my hand improves from Air->Good Draw nearly all the time and when an overcard peels off sometimes. The key with the overcard is, you have to make an excited bet! WoW, I'm so lucky, just Cbetting my AQo and POW! right there on the turn! Better fold those nines, pal, no good now! A tentative bet isn't going to do the trick.

Not double barreling at all is not a huge leak in uNL.

mvdgaag · #9 07-29-2007, 06:26 PM

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Not double barreling at all is not a huge leak in uNL.

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Indeed... And double barreling can easilly become a huge leak.

hennnerz · #10 07-30-2007, 07:46 AM

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I double barrel when my hand improves from Air->Good Draw nearly all the time and when an overcard peels off sometimes. The key with the overcard is, you have to make an excited bet! WoW, I'm so lucky, just Cbetting my AQo and POW! right there on the turn! Better fold those nines, pal, no good now! A tentative bet isn't going to do the trick.

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Why not take the free card when your hand turns into a drawy type hand. I assume that you talk of cbetting and then firing a second barrel in position righ?