Turnraise with flushdraw

[Mozart]

Villian is 16/8/2.6 he is somewhat aggressiv. (i.e raise with Ace high on a low card board oop)

First T8s is not a standard raise for me, normally i fold T8s in mp.





Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6SB, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (11BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to SB.

Results:
Final pot: 11BB

[yourface]

you dont have any fold equity. just call and pop it if you improve.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

The SB is a tight player, who just coldcalled your raise in a 1-2 structure game. He then check/raises you on an 862 flop. What I can tell you right now is he doesnt have 8x, he doesnt have 6x and he doesnt have 2x. What he likely has here is a better hand than you or a draw, and maybe hes making another play with Ax or nothing.

If he has a better hand then you, you certainly dont want to raise the turn. If he has a draw you also dont want to raise the turn assuming this guy will bluff the river UI, an if he somehow has Ax or nothing, you also dont want to raise the turn since he may bluff again or hit a lesser hand on the river that may call your bet if he decideds to check/call or call your raise if he bets and you improve.

So basically what I'm trying to say here is that your turn raise was a mistake. Whenever youre in a situation on the turn where your opponent either has a better hand than you, a draw, or nothing, you generally should not raise becuz raising just stops a bluff when youre winning and costs you money when youre losing.

[yourface]

ILP I'd say it depends on the %s of each. if he has a ton of draws and not that many better made hands we should raise for value.

if op was vs someone less nitty in this hand I would like his turn raise on this draw friendly board.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

"ILP I'd say it depends on the %s of each. if he has a ton of draws and not that many better made hands we should raise for value."

Not necessarily, even if its likely that most of his range consists of draws, calling down will still make/save more money than raising the turn if we make the assumption that he will bluff the river UI. Generally when I dont know if they'll bluff the river UI in this spot, I assume they will. So I would call down in this spot until i see that he will give up on the river with his busted draw. Then I would adjust my strategy.

"if op was vs someone less nitty in this hand I would like his turn raise on this draw friendly board."

The fact that this guy is nitty is important. It means if he has a made hand, he is unlikely to have a lesser hand than the hero except when has exactly 77 or 55. If there were alot more lesser made hands in the villain's range or if we had a read that the villain will not bluff the river then raising the turn for value would be the money play here.

[Mozart]

[ QUOTE ]

So basically what I'm trying to say here is that your turn raise was a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if the turn is a K?

[milesdyson]

i think this is fine but that you should probably call the river. maybe people don't notice that you have top pair on the turn.

edit: oops i thought SB just called the turn raise and donked that river. now the river looks good. disregard above except i still think the turn raise is okay, mainly based on the second comment about villain which i feel is more important than stats w/o a # of hands.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So basically what I'm trying to say here is that your turn raise was a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if the turn is a K?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the turn was a K, I would be very tempted to raise if I felt this guy could possibly fold a better hand like A8s,99s. The King is also the kind of card that may stop the villain from bluffing the river since if you call the turn on that card it looks alot more like you are showing down. The less likely the villain will bluff the river, the more likely I would raise the turn so I can fully charge his draw while I still have the chance.

So if the turn is a King or an Ace, whether they give you a flush draw or not there is certainly now an incentive for you to raise. This doesnt mean that raising the turn is better than calling in that scenario since there is still not enough information to make that conclusion. But its safe to say that I am much more likely to raise the turn when a king or an ace hits than when a blank hits in this specific situation.

[Gurravasa]

What made you raise this crappy hand OOP? Turn raise is awful since you don't have equity and probably are behind. I would call this down UI after flop C/R against this villain.