Is playing ABC poker at 6max microlimit games reasonable?

[Norb]

I'm playing now for little more than 1 year FR Limit and went up from the microlimits to small stakes succesfully. Recently I begun trying to play at 6max tables within the microlimits but I can't get the necessary edge.

I have read most of the articles within the 6 max FAQ, I use the preflop chart published by MEbenhoe and I had already posted my statistical parameters some days ago, they seem all to be ok. Only my preflop raises are a bit too low but I'm working on this issue. I'm also trying my best stealing the blinds if I have a decent hand and, of course, also I try my best in defending them.

But the biggest problem that I encounter, is the decision, whether I should play ABC poker, this means no bluffs, no tricky moves etc. or if I should try to steal some pots.

If I play ABC poker, I have always the problem, my foes bet or raise the flop with nothing or nearly nothing and I get a big disadvantage because they soon realize that I will fold if I hit nothing on the flop. On the other side, if I will bet and raise, they recognize that I have something playable and my earnings are accordingly poor.

If I try some moves, i.ex. checking the flop with low pair or overcards and then raise the turn, nearly all opponents will stick to the pot like the devil on a poor soul and these are the hands, that turn for me into real losers because I have no reads on them and at least one of them has some reasonable holding (family odds effect!) that beats me.

So what to do? Isolating single opponents and call them down? Difficult, at least, if not quite impossible. Im really stumped! In fact, I know, that I'm at least an above average player within the full ring small stakes but in 6 max games all my knowledge seem to roll off like water on a duck's back. Or am I really just running bad without noticing it? I have no clue.

I know, that this sounds like a stupid beginners question (and maybe it is really one) and I must admit, that I now feel like a beginner in 6 max games but if anybody could give me some real useful advices how to get the edge at those games, I would appreciate this very much!

Thank you very much for your help!

Best regards, Norbert

PS: please excuse my poor english, it's not my native language.

[Oink]

Low stakes can be beat with ABC!

Things to remember:

- ABC full ring does not equate ABC 6max. You must see more showdowns and you must play more aggressively.

- Rake is more important in 6max than in FR. Dont play at sites with unreasonable rake schedules. Examples are Party 1/2 and every game at Pacific. Also, since the game has more variance and since rake is that more important you have to play at sites with good rb/bonus/vip programs.

- You are in many more marginal spots in 6max than in FR. Try developing your hand reading skills. I dont know how good they are, but my experience with FR nits is that most of them are completely incapable of reading boards. (No offence and take it FWIW as my FR experience is little)

- Finally. You dont necessarily have a problem. Variance is sick and unless you have been loosing over say 100k hands you really cant be sure of anything.

[mmctrab]

You may be running a little bad. In my experience, ABC poker, plus good blind stealing and defense should work fine. There will be times they'll steal from you, there will be times you steal from them. There will be times they try to steal, and you crush them. If you're good at it it will at least even out on the end. But, you have to be able to do this, because even at the microlimits (though it may depend on what site you're at) I see a lot of blind stealing, even people trying to steal with any two cards.

I also see people bluffing at flops they missed quite a bit, and donking flops into a preflop raiser. All of this means you need to play more aggressively after the flop. If you raised, and somebody donks the flop, you need to raise if you have anything. And, if they don't back down, you need to either call down or decide on whether to keep playing more aggressively. It's obviously very situational, but I see a lot of bluffing and semi-bluffing, and I constantly see people at the tables who don't know how to deal with it. The result is that these people get robbed blind.

Posting individual hands would be helpful.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
If you raised, and somebody donks the flop, you need to raise if you have anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a universal truth!

If you are up against an habitual bluffer who will bluff all 3 streets there is no reason to raise him of his bluff. Say a bad player who bluffs a lot donks you on A72 flop and you have A4. There is no reason to raise here.

[ QUOTE ]
Posting individual hands would be helpful.

[/ QUOTE ]

That, on the other hand, is undoubtedly correct

[TheWunderkind]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you raised, and somebody donks the flop, you need to raise if you have anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a universal truth!


[/ QUOTE ]

yeah thats pretty much bad advice


btw i cant see another way to beat those games other then played so called ABC Poker. You need to adjust of course, the worst thing is if you play on autopilot.

[mmctrab]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you raised, and somebody donks the flop, you need to raise if you have anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a universal truth!


[/ QUOTE ]

yeah thats pretty much bad advice


btw i cant see another way to beat those games other then played so called ABC Poker. You need to adjust of course, the worst thing is if you play on autopilot.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's obviously not a "universal truth". It's also not bad advice. I see a lot of villains donking flops into a preflop raiser gambling that they missed the flop. When they get raised, they usually fold, because their donk is a bluff.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
When they get raised, they usually fold, because their donk is a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting villains to fold a bluff when they have little equity in a small pot is bad poker!

There are plenty of spots where you should raise a donk. But certainly not always and its horrible poker advice with such generic postulates. Dont play poker by rules. Play poker using reads and game theoretic sense.

[Bilgefisher]

[ QUOTE ]

- You are in many more marginal spots in 6max than in FR. Try developing your hand reading skills. I dont know how good they are, but my experience with FR nits is that most of them are completely incapable of reading boards. (No offence and take it FWIW as my FR experience is little)


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a full ring nit, and your absolutely right. While I'm still a losing player at 6-max, picking up some of this did improve my FR game. I also found hand reading in 6-max improved my hand reading 10 fold. I have a long way to go, but everyone has to start somewhere.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

It's also not bad advice. I see a lot of villains donking flops into a preflop raiser gambling that they missed the flop. When they get raised, they usually fold, because their donk is a bluff.


[/ QUOTE ]

Now you have to explain how that is better than having them bet the turn and river on the same bluff. Recall that the advice to raise was for when we "have something."

Guy.

[Norb]

[ QUOTE ]
Low stakes can be beat with ABC!

Things to remember:

- ABC full ring does not equate ABC 6max. You must see more showdowns and you must play more aggressively.

- Rake is more important in 6max than in FR. Dont play at sites with unreasonable rake schedules. Examples are Party 1/2 and every game at Pacific. Also, since the game has more variance and since rake is that more important you have to play at sites with good rb/bonus/vip programs.

- You are in many more marginal spots in 6max than in FR. Try developing your hand reading skills. I dont know how good they are, but my experience with FR nits is that most of them are completely incapable of reading boards. (No offence and take it FWIW as my FR experience is little)

- Finally. You dont necessarily have a problem. Variance is sick and unless you have been loosing over say 100k hands you really cant be sure of anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oink,

thanks a lot for your suggestions and hints, they helped me a lot. I also found out that it is often useful to adjust aggression inverse proportional to the number of opponents within the hand. Of course I must be selective with this action and take care about the characters of my foes.
Also many thanks to all the others, giving their opinions within this discussion thread.

Best regards, Norbert