Poker Room Management Question

uclaben · #1 05-03-2007, 02:36 PM

My apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere. I was wondering why the casinos in Los Angeles give superior service/comps (free food, parking validation, etc.) to high-limit players given that the rake on these tables is essentially the same. In Las Vegas you're hoping that these individuals will give you action at the tables, but in LA this doesn't seem like much of an issue. Granted there are table games in most of the big rooms (Commerce, Bike, HP), but in my experience the upper-limit poker players do not spend a lot of time in that section. What is the casino's motivation in offering incentives to higher-limit players that are not offered to those who play smaller games?

Rottersod · #2 05-03-2007, 02:45 PM

Generally speaking players who play at higher levels have more money and play longer and more often so the casino wants to keep them happy and coming back. They don't want to overload the valet parking either or else no one will be happy so they limit who they comp. Casino's typically offer a players card to everyone and at lower limits you can earn free food based on hours played.

youtalkfunny · #3 05-03-2007, 04:08 PM

Good guess, not quite.

Management wants to lure the big players, because a room with lots of big games has prestige, and that attracts more players.

When newb players try to answer the question, "What's the BEST poker room around?", they usually choose the ones with the big games. Why else would those smart, expert, high-limit players choose that room?

Why is the Bellagio jammed packed every night, despite the litany of complaints from people who've actually played there? Because that's where the big games are, and everybody wants to be sitting three tables away from Johnny Chan. Doyle knows a lot about poker, and if he chooses this room to play in, then I should, too.

The poker room doesn't send a limo to pick you up at the airport, because your presence won't bring in 100's of other players.

TimTimSalabim · #4 05-03-2007, 05:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why is the Bellagio jammed packed every night, despite the litany of complaints from people who've actually played there? Because that's where the big games are, and everybody wants to be sitting three tables away from Johnny Chan. Doyle knows a lot about poker, and if he chooses this room to play in, then I should, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

So true. It occurred to me the other day that Bellagio is the Soup Nazi of poker rooms. "You don't like the way we handle our list? No 15-30 for you!!".

Rottersod · #5 05-03-2007, 05:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Good guess, not quite.

Management wants to lure the big players, because a room with lots of big games has prestige, and that attracts more players.

When newb players try to answer the question, "What's the BEST poker room around?", they usually choose the ones with the big games. Why else would those smart, expert, high-limit players choose that room?

Why is the Bellagio jammed packed every night, despite the litany of complaints from people who've actually played there? Because that's where the big games are, and everybody wants to be sitting three tables away from Johnny Chan. Doyle knows a lot about poker, and if he chooses this room to play in, then I should, too.

The poker room doesn't send a limo to pick you up at the airport, because your presence won't bring in 100's of other players.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP was talking about LA card rooms like the bike, etc, where I play regularly. The top section is everything from $100NL (2/3) up. Most of these are not "big" players, as in players who would be dropping thousands a night/week at the B. If you want to go see the "names" on a regular basis you go to the hustler and commerce, although I did play 5/5 with Jose Canseco the other week.

pokerswami · #6 05-03-2007, 06:20 PM

All gambling establishment profit is based on losing players. One way or another, whether poker or pit games or slots, the only way to sustain the company and the employees is for more money to be lost than won.

When customers who aren't long-term profitable poker players (read: true winning professionals) come to play at a cardroom they sustain the business, the employees and the winning players.

Smaller bankrolled, less affluent players contribute to the rake and they tip the staff, including waitresses. They often stay at the hotel, which is additional profit, and they and their traveling companions, spouses, girl-friends, family, etc. will play and generally lose money at pit games and slots.

Larger bankrolled, wealthy poker players with lots of disposable income, will contribute basically the same in average rake per hand at the same limits as the small bankrolled players. They will tip the employees, often more on average than the small fries. However, the guys with lots of money will, on average, lose a lot more at the other casino games and slots. Their wives, girlfriends, family, etc. will, on average, lose a lot more at the other casino games and slots. These big fries will much more likely pay for overpriced wine and champagne and food in the restaurants. They will pay premium prices for their larger, nicer hotel rooms. They will pay highly profitable fees for spa features.

I don't know about the primarily poker driven California rooms, but in big casinos, the well-heeled are more valued than the players looking for value. Even if not for their play, their families casino play makes a huge difference.

I will say this. I've read a lot of posts regarding crime centered around big SoCal cardrooms. If I operated one, I would want to attract as many of the well-off as I could, not just because they are more likely to provide extra profit and much less likely to cause major confrontaions and crime, but because their presence and influence (pressure to authorities) will likely result in better law enforcement protection for everyone, other players and employees, alike. The whole neighborhood ought to benefit. Note I said ought to.

TimTimSalabim · #7 05-03-2007, 06:29 PM

So, when the OP referred to 'high limit' players who pay essentially the same rake as the low limit ones, he was talking about $100NL? This thread is almost starting to make sense. Almost.

AngusThermopyle · #8 05-03-2007, 06:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I don't know about the primarily poker driven California rooms,

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that is what he was asking about.

Rottersod · #9 05-03-2007, 06:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So, when the OP referred to 'high limit' players who pay essentially the same rake as the low limit ones, he was talking about $100NL? This thread is almost starting to make sense. Almost.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the bike the top section is for $100 (2/3) and up. Free food. They don't comp valet unless you are at the higher tables but by then you won't be given a ticket anyways and you'll just give a tip. No hotel there.

AngusThermopyle · #10 05-03-2007, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So, when the OP referred to 'high limit' players who pay essentially the same rake as the low limit ones, he was talking about $100NL? This thread is almost starting to make sense. Almost.

[/ QUOTE ]

In California, if the game is 'raked', the fee is the same in a 3/6 as it is in a 100/200. A flat fee per hand, not a percentage. Limit, or No Limit.

The only difference is that the bigger limit games often have time collections instead of a rake/drop.

But, in San Jose, a 3/6 or 6/12 game drops about $160 an hour.
A 10-handed time collection of $8 a half-hour pays the same.