2/4 Hi: Queens, river play

[TheSalche]

I'm looking for comments on all streets, but mostly river. I was almost positive that seat 2 had the heart draw, but definetly didn't have an inkling on seat 3. How's it look?

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (6.00 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

5th Street - (6.00 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks

6th Street - (6.00 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

River - (9.00 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets?

Total pot: (9.00 BB)

[Andy B]

Your hand is pretty dead on fourth. I'd lean towards checking. I would probably continue checking on sixth as well. You're not likely to buy the pot, in my estimation. I would definitely check the river. I don't think that betting one pair into two opponents on the river is a good idea very often.

[TheSalche]

Should I be betting 5th as well, given my read? I felt if I got raised on 5th then I'm behind for sure, and if I check and he checks behind then he's got the flush draw, but he could still hit freak two pair/trips/straight that I might not catch.

[MRBAA]

ugh. really badly played (no offense). Trust your read and bet fifth -- if they both call, check sixth. As played, I don't like the river bet into two players. If they missed draws, they'll fold. One lower pair may call but there's just as good a chance you'll be betting two pair's hand for him.

[Bartholow]

Yeah, I think you can go ahead and bet into him on 5th here. If you get raised again after catching that ace, you may want to just pack it in.

Definitely check the river. In addition to what MRBAA said about betting 2-pair hands for your opponent, you also generally don't want to bet into a flush draw here, because he'll fold if he missed and raise if he hit. The presence of the other player can change things if you have a strong hand that can get paid off, but queens...

[Brad1970]

Check/call the river. These 2 are probably drawing. In my experience, most folks in a 2/4 game will draw all the way without regard to how many outs they have because they're too busy multi-tabling 6 tables of stud....

[Wahoo73]

I assume this is on PS...structure looks the same as PS and the loose-passive action you get on 3rd and 4th streets looks typical of the 2/4 game at PS (which IMO is the most EV- stud game at PS).

Regardless, I agree with Andy about possibly checking 4th street...it's a close call and it seems to be one of those situations where you are almost assuredly ahead at this point but not likely to be ahead at the end.

Having said that, if you do bet on 4th street, regardless of seat #2's raise, I think you should have then bet 5th street. You caught a great scare card with the Ac and it appears that both of your opponents are on draws so you don't want to be giving free cards to them and you'd like to get at least one of them to fold on 5th.

Given that you checked 5th, I think you should have checked 6th as well. As you stated, Seat #2 certainly appears to be on a flush draw. As for Seat #3, by this point I'd be willing to bet he either has a pair (9s or Ts) with a straight draw, or two pairs (Ts and 8s). Therefore, IMO, you're chances of winning against these two opponents is pretty slim, so why put any more money in the pot?

Check-fold the river.

[MRBAA]

Ugh. you have the boss pair on the boards, no way I check fourth. Bet your damn hand (as you might say!). At low stakes, I've won plenty of pots with just top pair.

[PoorLawyer]

If you are sure its a flush draw I think you need to bet 5th. If he wants to raise on his draw that may actually be good if he can knock out the 3 seat.

The river is a check. If you check and then there is a bet and a call from seat 3, you can assume with a strong likelihood that you are beat in at least one spot and make the good fold. If seat 2 bets and 3 folds, probably call if you have any doubt that he might try to bet his busted draw as you only have to be right about 10% (?) of the time.

[TheSalche]

I appreciate the replies, note to self: trust your reads.

Not that it matters much, I donk bet the river there and it was folded to me ... totally botched that hand but somehow came up on top.

Still curious on what seat 3 had though =/