Poker content from cts in the well *long*

Dory · #1 08-15-2006, 02:50 AM

I have fallen behind in doing these, but I still think that it may be worthwhile to have the poker content of these great threads stripped out and presented in a slightly more digestible fashion.

Any suggestions for a better way of doing this would be gratefully accepted.

 How do you determine that a particular Villain is ripe for floating (assume that because you're multitabling, it's hard to pay close attention to their c-bets)? Are there particular PT stats that help you make such an assessment? 

I think the whole floating concept is overrated and has gotten out of control with 2+2ers. It's fine to do occasionally but there are some guys who just float every single flop and this is largely exploitable.

Good candidates for floating
*CB a lot
*don't bet the turn a lot
*are straightforward
*are not A-high to the felt calling stations

Also, the floater candidate may be more likely to semibluff or call your turn bet on a drawy board, whereas he may be less inclined to fire a second barrel once you call him on an A72r board, so board texture is important too.

PokerAce has the statistics "CB", "CB Turn", "Checkraise Turn", and "Fold to Turn Bet" so I use these stats.

 What kind of things do you do for game selection? 

Basically I just want at least one really bad player. I'm not interested in playing at a table with 5 35/7s really, I'd rather have a table with a bunch of TAGs and one 70/30 drooler.

I use SixthSense for table selection, it is a GREAT program that I'd highly recommend for finding juicy games. You can find a link to it in the software section.

 At a typical 6max table, what's your typical UTG opening range? 

Always:
22+
KQo
AJo+
ATs+
QJs
JTs
Under certain conditions (usually if there is a fishy player in the blinds or if the players behind me are very tight):
SCs
S1Gappers
KJo
S2Gappers
KJs/KTs
Rarely:
Occasionally other junk, JTo, 84s or something. Not too often though.

 Do you ever open limp? If so, when? (6max)

Nope. Well, actually if it is folded to me on the button and the blinds are shortstacked occasionally I will, but certainly not often.

 If you're willing to do so, discuss your preflop re-raising range with 100BBs compared to 200BBs or more. 

This is so dependent on the orginal raiser's opening range, his position, and my position. I'll go over a few situations.

1) 24/18 TAG opens from the CO. I'm on the BTN.
100BBs: reraise 99+, AQ+, AJs always. Reraise 22-88, SCs, S1Gs, S2Gs sometimes. I don't reraise light with Axs. With 200BBs I'll reraise these speculative hands more often. Deception is important when you are trying to play a big pot.

2) 18/12 TAG opens UTG. I'm on the BTN.
100BBs: reraise TT+, AKo, AQs+, rarely speculative hands. 200BBs: sometimes small pairs and other speculative hands.

3) 30/20 good LAG opens from the BTN. I'm in the SB and the BB is a tight passive player. I basically never call here.
100BBs: reraise always 22+, AJo+, ATs+. Reraise a lot of the time random SCs/S1Gs/S2Gs, broadway stuff. 200BBs: more suited stuff.

I'm not sure how good these examples are but if you have a more specific question feel free to ask. I think most regulars in general play poorly in reraised pots, and I think this is one of the strong parts of my game, so I reraise quite a bit.

 As you move up, you'll see fewer total donks and you'll have to beat the average guy more often. From your perspective, what are some of the common and exploitable mistakes made by the "average" 2/4 or 3/6 player, and by that I mean non-donk, non-maniac?

I'll assume you are talking about the OK regulars when you say non-donk, non-maniac. There's really no one attribute that makes these guys exploitable, they all have their own weaknesses you just have to find out what it is. Big ones would be:

* lots of guys check/call the flop and check/fold the turn with any sort of one pair hand. Second barrel them a lot.

* lots of guys play their sets one way and their TP/OPs another way. This is great, and find out who they are quickly.

 Do you have any broad advice on playing TPGK/TPTK in a multiway unraised pot OOP? Say for example you limp KQ in EP and there are like 3 other limpers, which is unusually many for this table. The flop comes KJ6 with a flush draw. You bet and get 2 callers. The turn is a blank, like an offsuit 4. Do you keep betting, and if so, what happens if they call again and the river is another blank?

<cts> Thanks for the specific example, definitely makes it easier to respond. First, I would not limp KQ in EP. Raising or folding makes this hand a ton easier to play. With KQ on a KJ6 flop and no one raising I'm usually just going to assume my hand is good and value bet it the whole way until someone gives me reason to believe that I'm beat. I'm not trying to play a huge pot and probably won't be betting too big, just small enough so K4o can call me down. If it's HU and my opponent is the type to bluff a missed draw on the river I'll frequently check/call that street when it whiffs.

<ahnuld> not directed at me, but I'll give my 2 cents anyways because I want to.

It really depends on what you have observed in the opponenents. If they are really tight and like to slowplay their good hands on dry boards then just go into check/call or check/fold mode. If they take alot of cards off with midpair, gutter, which people tend to do a lot at the stakes I play, I'll fire a lot of second barrels, but almost always fold to a raise.

If I turn something like 2 pair but have been making a lot of flop bets then giving up on turns, I may go for a CR just so these limpers than call in position know they cant always float me on the flop. CRing occasionally instead of firing turn again with your strong hands is a good way to keep your opponents from stealing pots from you.

Most important is just realising how they play different types of hands, ie draws, lock hands, mid pair hands, top pair hands. Once you figure that out for the opponent, it'll make your turn decisions a lot easier. But agression can never be overly bad, so when in doubt and with no read, feel free to fire again, but shutdown if called.

 Can you give some advice on how you would modify your game for SSNL w/ regard to your starting hand ranges/situations you posted above?

When it comes to reraising light, etc it's something to take into account when you are playing with regulars who will remember your play. Then you can get more action on your big hands and stay deceptive in reraised pots when you flop huge. If a 70/30 fish opens UTG, I know his range is huge, but I will rarely reraise him light. He's going to give me such great implied odds that I'll just call with 22/87s/etc on the button, as a 3-bet probably just bloats the pot and does not have much fold equity. At SSNL I would imagine the turnover is pretty high so I would definitely do less fancy stuff preflop. I was in the process of funding a new account the other day and didn't have much money in it so I played some 1/2NL and found myself doing a lot more calling/overlimping preflop than I do at the higher limits, so at SSNL I would imagine I would call a little more and raise a little less. If the BTN opens and I have 22 in the SB, maybe I'll call rather than raise or fold if I think that the BB will tag along or I can play postflop exceptionally well.

As for unraised pots I don't think I would change my range at all for SSNL. I already gave an outline of my UTG opening range and I play almost exactly the same from MP. From the CO it is very important on the playing tendencies of the BTN. If the BTN is a huge fish I probably leave the table and try to get a new seat, but if I can't I have to tighten up considerably. If the BTN is a 17/12 TAG I play the CO and the BTN nearly identically. A rough CO opening range would be:

22+
A8o+
KTo+
QJo
JTo
54s+
53s+

and from the BTN I'd add in lots of suited junk (85s), big cards(J9o) and sometimes any two if the blinds are tight or fishy or whatever.

If there are limpers, I'll limp in with some of these hands, but usually I'm just raising or folding. For example if there are two limpers and I have 22/76s on the BTN, I pot it, but I'd usually fold K8o.

 Can u go into further detail on how the regulars play bad in reraised pots, i'd be interested to see if im making the same mistakes they are.

Well the first mistake I would say is betting too much. In a limped or raised pot, it frequently takes pot/pot/pot to get all of your money in so you are going to be doing this with most of your hands. In a reraised pot, the pot size gets out of control so quickly that it is easy to get money in with your good hands. You should also be worried less about pricing draws in reraised pots. If the BTN opens and I reraise him from the SB with AK/QQ/76s/22 and the flop comes K85 with a flush draw, I'm probably going to bet (if at all) between 1/2 and 2/3 pot with all of these hands. Lots of regulars fall into a "win every reraised pot" mode and bet way too much in reraised pots with weak holdings after reraising light, just plain spewing. In this same "win every pot" mindset, players overvalue weaker hands in reraised pots. Say for example a regular opens from the CO with 88, the 18/12 BTN reraises him and he says "ok I'll play for set value." Then the flop comes 252 and he checkraises all-in. C'mon we've all been there, we're frequently called, and it's always AA/KK. You don't have to peel one off just to "see if he has AK" every time in reraised pots.

 What are some examples of common bad advice that you see given in SSNL? 

Definitely blanket weak tight stuff like "don't go broke with one pair" or "don't go broke in an unraised pot." That stuff is just garbage, I've won some of my biggest pots with one pair or in unraised pots. Trust your reads, not some slogan. Here's one example from a 3/6 game against a non-maniac:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 handed)

CO ($1434.44)
Button ($1854.97)
Hero ($1200)
BB ($742.86)
UTG ($591)
MP ($703.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K , A . Hero posts a blind of $3.
2 folds, CO calls $6, Button calls $6, Hero (poster) raises to $36, 1 fold, CO folds, Button calls $33.

Flop: ($90) K , 8 , Q (2 players)
Hero bets $63, Button raises to $250, Hero calls $187.

Turn: ($590) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $500, Hero calls $911 (All-In), Button calls $411.

River: ($2412) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $2412

Hero has Kc Ad (two pair, aces and kings).
Button has 9s Kd (two pair, kings and queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $2412.

 A loose-ish player opens from the button, and you re-raise from the BB with 76s. Flop comes Q73r. You lead for ~pot and get called. Turn a brick, like a 2. Fire again? Check/call? I do understand it's tough to answer without real reads and situational rhythm, but I'm curious about how you play re-raised pots OOP. 

Check/fold usually. Push sometimes. Never check/call probably. I wouldn't have full-potted the flop in the first place though, so there's your first mistake. Like I was saying lots of players have a "win every reraised pot mentality." If you try to run a squeeze play or reraise light with 76s and are called, there is no shame in just check/folding the flop occasionally, particularly if your opponent is somewhat tight/tricky/the flop probably hit him hard.

 You're on the button with effective stacks 200BBs. "Average" player raises 4x, you re-raise with 76s. First, how much are you re-raising? Second, the flop comes Q73r, Villain checks, you bet ~pot, Villain calls. Turn a 2. Villain checks, you...? 

I'd reraise to 15xBB or so. I would not full pot the flop. I would usually give up on the turn, but if I think the guy can fold AQ maybe I'd bet and then shove the river. Plans that rely on your opponent folding top pair usually don't work out so well and the only other weak-ish hand he can be calling you with on that flop is like 88.

 What do you think about checking behind a blank turn with TPTK/overpair for pot control? should you always be value betting here? 

yvesaint stressed value betting a lot in his well. He was right on, and this is so key especially in SSNL. I'll almost always value bet here, but sometimes I'll check behind to set up a value bet on the river if I think the guy will fold to my turn bet but call a river bet.

 What do you think is the most important thing your opponents do and you don't (or other way around) which makes you a winner against them 

Bad things my opponents do:
*Bluff too much.
*Call too much.
*Play too loose from UTG/MP.
*Play poorly in reraised pots.

Things that my opponents should do but don't:
*Play more pots against me in position.
*Reraise me from the blinds when I open from the button rather than calling -- loosen up for an hour of play and then check your PT stats for the session. Keep repeating this until you get to 30/20 or so. Then play a session and every time you raise from the button, ask yourself "what am I going to do if I'm reraised." You'll start reraising 30/20 BTN openers a lot more when you see the trash they are opening with .
*Play tighter in the blinds.

 What do I need to do in order to play multitable more effectively?

My advice would be to start adding one table at a time until it's not any harder to develop reads than it is single tabling. The "bet pot" script (check overcards.com or the software forum) also helps speed things up immensely. Get rid of GT+ and buy PokerAce, you won't regret it.

wslee00 · #2 08-15-2006, 03:00 AM

wow - very nice - thanks for this

Echelon · #3 08-15-2006, 03:20 AM

thanks

cambraceres · #4 08-15-2006, 03:24 AM

The selected post/topic has been added to your list. You will see this entry in 'My Home' until you remove it if you added it as a Favorite. You also will get any replies to your Favorite topics emailed to you if you have this option enabled in your profile. Reminders will not be emailed to you and will go away once you make a reply to the post. In a moment you will be automatically returned to the forum.