"Respecting" people's beliefs...

Acorn Sigma · #1 01-02-2007, 12:09 PM

Am I bastard for not "respecting" the beliefs of Christians or other people of faith?...I don't think so anyway...I'm not talking about in my head thinking their beliefs are absurd, but openly saying what I feel.

There's a tolerance in our society for illogical beliefs when they come in the form of religion. If a person were to assert a geocentric universe, he would be openly rediculed. When he asserts that the earth was created several thousand years ago by a god, who also is a man who lived, died, and lived again and now lives inside all of us as himself and his father and some other mysterious spirit we simply "respect his beliefs."

Dawkins/Harris explain this much better than I do, but it's one thing that really burns me about religion today and I'm going to say what I think even though people feel I take athiesm too seriously and can criticize me for it.

~AS

RayBornert · #2 01-02-2007, 12:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Am I bastard for not "respecting" the beliefs of Christians or other people of faith?...I don't think so anyway...I'm not talking about in my head thinking their beliefs are absurd, but openly saying what I feel.

There's a tolerance in our society for illogical beliefs when they come in the form of religion. If a person were to assert a geocentric universe, he would be openly rediculed. When he asserts that the earth was created several thousand years ago by a god, who also is a man who lived, died, and lived again and now lives inside all of us as himself and his father and some other mysterious spirit we simply "respect his beliefs."

Dawkins/Harris explain this much better than I do, but it's one thing that really burns me about religion today and I'm going to say what I think even though people feel I take athiesm too seriously and can criticize me for it.

~AS

[/ QUOTE ]

have you ever stopped to ponder why the beliefs of others have so much apparent gravity upon your composure?

dig deep. here's how. as you dig, you are only allowed to use the phrases that begin with "i want ..." to describe your reaction(s). you cannot use phrases that begin with

"i believe ..."
"i think ... "
"i know ... "

construct a profile of the typical "believer" type you're referring to and then play god over their life and yours and construct statements in their direction and yours that begin with

"i want ... "

and in the process you'll get a picture of a profile of yourself (which you may or may not like).

ray

madnak · #3 01-02-2007, 12:56 PM

Respect doesn't mean much if you apply it to everyone and everything.

Skoob · #4 01-02-2007, 02:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Am I bastard for not "respecting" the beliefs of Christians or other people of faith?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO, yes you are.

I am not a Christian, but I am a person of faith. I fit into the category of the Universalist. I believe that everyone else's concept of god or religion is equally valid. And I don't feel sorry for the atheists or believe anyone will go to hell (I don't believe in hell).

I believe there is a supreme power that created the universe and is omnipotent, but am unable to define such a being (unlike the Christians, for example, who have a very definite concept of God) because its power and existance is beyond human comprehension. I do not believe that Jesus was the son of such a being and that's why I'm not a Christian.

I don't attend church. I do not subscribe to any religion, but I have faith and I pray in my own way.

What I do have a problem with is the antitheists (like you, Sklansky, and others) out there. Not only do you not believe in God (which is fine, to each their own) but you don't want me to believe in God either. Why can't I believe in God? What does that have to do with you?

Tell me, how is your disdain for my faith any different than a religious fundamentalist who tries to force their religion down my throat? You're doing the same by forcing your anti-faith on me. You're equal jerks in my mind.

It's fine that you're an atheist, don't be an antitheist. Otherwise, you're no different than those you disrespect.

stinkbot · #5 01-02-2007, 02:21 PM

But many theists are entering the political process and putting pressure on politicians to pass laws that are based not on reason, but on their own religious values, thus trying to force everyone to--if not actually believe--than at least act as if we believe in their own version of God.

Furthermore, they are indoctrinating children's minds which is morally wrong.

They are a danger to society and must be stopped. If they won't listen to reason, then they ought to be ridiculed in my opinion.

thylacine · #6 01-02-2007, 02:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Am I bastard for not "respecting" the beliefs of Christians or other people of faith?...I don't think so anyway...I'm not talking about in my head thinking their beliefs are absurd, but openly saying what I feel.

There's a tolerance in our society for illogical beliefs when they come in the form of religion. If a person were to assert a geocentric universe, he would be openly rediculed. When he asserts that the earth was created several thousand years ago by a god, who also is a man who lived, died, and lived again and now lives inside all of us as himself and his father and some other mysterious spirit we simply "respect his beliefs."

Dawkins/Harris explain this much better than I do, but it's one thing that really burns me about religion today and I'm going to say what I think even though people feel I take athiesm too seriously and can criticize me for it.

~AS

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a form of blackmail going on. The religious believer makes it known that if you disrespect their religion then they'll throw a big histrionic tantrum, then they'll sulk, then later you will notice everyone glaring at you. (There are other version such as you being burnt at the stake.) So it is tempting for many to say oh well okay I give in I respect your religion (and even to glare at people who don't go along with it).

Skoob · #7 01-02-2007, 02:29 PM

They aren't just "theists," they have a religious adgenda. Let's not confuse faith with religion here.

I think religion is a bad thing. Faith, is not.

There's a big difference between faith and religion. People of faith don't force their faith on others. It's religion that causes that.

arahant · #8 01-02-2007, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
They aren't just "theists," they have a religious adgenda. Let's not confuse faith with religion here.

I think religion is a bad thing. Faith, is not.

There's a big difference between faith and religion. People of faith don't force their faith on others. It's religion that causes that.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the problem is actually faith. Religions are of course founded on faith, so they are a problem too, but faith is the root cause.

Believing things without evidence can cause people to act in ways that are harmful to others, and there is no way to have a dialogue to change their behaviour, because it is, by definition, not ammenable to logical discourse.

I see the OP has read 'end of faith', and you should too. You can just skim it...he gets a little strident sometimes.

Xhad · #9 01-02-2007, 02:53 PM

Exactly what someone's beliefs are don't matter nearly as much to me as how they arrived at those beliefs, and whether or not they understand how they relate to the real world. I'm atheistic myself but I have more respect for the occasional rational (or mostly rational) Christian than many atheists.

stinkbot · #10 01-02-2007, 02:59 PM

Yeah, but what if your faith includes the belief that your God wants you to convert others? That's not religion. That's faith.

Faith IS the problem. If you believe (have faith) that strapping a bomb across your chest and blowing yourself up along with a bunch of other people will bring you ever-lasting peace, then we have a problem.