Stud/8 concealed pair

[Truthiness24]

#9

What do you think of this line? Is there a time to toss this or is it just a bad beat? I thought that this kind of hand had great value. Did I just play it wrong? (Please tell me why.)

20/40 Stud/8, 8 handed
V1 is a little wild but otherwise solid.
V2 is very solid and most definitely better at this game than me.

Hero: (QQ) 4, bringin -- raises
(2 folds)
Villain #1: (xx) T, calls -- calls
(2 folds)
Villain #2 (xx) 5 completes -- calls (and says, I wonder how to play this since [Hero] said that he doesn't play [Stud/8] much).
* I added this because V2 seems to be confused by my raise.
(1 fold)

4th:
Hero (QQ) 4A -- bets
V1 (xx) T3 -- calls
V2 (xx) 58 -- calls

5th:
Hero (QQ) 4A6, 2 diamonds -- bets
V1 (xx) T3J, 2 clubs -- calls
V2 (xx) 582 -- calls

6th:
Hero: (QQ) 4A62, 3 diamonds -- bets
V1: (xx) T3J4, 2 clubs -- calls
V2: (xx) 5829 -- calls

7th:
Hero: (QQ) 4A62 (4) -- bets -- calls
V1: (xx) T3J4 (x) -- calls -- calls -- mucks
V2: (xx) 5829 (x) raises

V2 showed (46) 5829 (7) and scooped with a low and a 9 high straight. She said that she rivered the gutshot, and I believe her.

I feel like I fooled V1 into sticking around with 2 pair at best. I showed my hand first so I know he didn't have a low or better than Qs up. This suggested to me that I played it right but didn't get the result.

I feel like this is just a bad beat. But was I playing over my head as a newb to even try to pull this off? Did I play it too fast, perhaps?

Edit: I actually had the Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] too, so when I say that I had "3 diamonds" on 6th, that's what was exposed -- I actually picked up the flush draw there. My post & question really have to do more with whether I should have played this hand this fast up until 6th.

[AliasM]

was 4th an Ace or an 8...it seems to change

[Truthiness24]

sorry, typo ... this was live action & I'm working from memory & not a converter

[2461Badugi]

Looks good to me.

[Andy B]

First things first--when 654 beats QQx in this game, it is not a bad beat. 654 is a quality starting hand. QQx is frequently suspect.

I like to bring it in for the minimum and then pop it on the backside perhaps a bit too often. It's fun and keeps people off-balance. I'm not sure I like it here. You can be sure that the good player has a quality hand. It's also fairly likely that the Ten has crap. By raising, you may drive out the Ten, which may be to your advantage. If you just call, maybe he folds anyway (somewhat unlikely). If you raise and he calls, you're punishing him, but the good player is probably reaping most of the rewards. On balance, I like keeping the pot small and hoping it comes down favorably on fourth.

Obviously, fourth came down nicely, and of course you bet. I would be concerned when the good player calls, though. I don't think that she's calling with a one-way low draw. Likely starting hands include 654 and 765. Maybe she's peeling a little light because of the double bet on fourth.

I still bet fifth, but when the good player calls, I feel a little sick. She's looking at A64 from a guy who raised third. She probably has a made low with an excellent high draw. Your Queens and back-door low draw aren't looking that hot.

I wouldn't be able to resist betting sixth, either. Maybe the good player was calling you light and can now be persuaded to fold. I'm guessing that anything she might fold now she would have folded earlier. I don't like my hand much at this point. I recommend catching a Trey on the river.

Having gotten to the river, I think you have to check and call. I'm guessing that the man in the middle had some kind of a draw. Either he's outrun you or he's not calling with a worse hand. The good player could well have you beaten as well. I just don't see any value in this bet. I feel more strongly about this than any of the other streets.

[MarkGritter]

Andy,

You don't think that firing on the river here (or 6th street) gets a low hand to fold often enough to be worthwhile? If the good player is still in this hand it's probably because she's got a two-way draw, but the most likely one is a straight, which means she's got a rough low. The pot's big, but I think his hand has enough deception to make this work occasionally, and the reward is large.

Maybe I can even argue myself into a bet/fold line on the theory that nothing weaker than a straight or flush is going to pop it here, though I wouldn't like to make a habit of it.

[Andy B]

Maybe betting sixth street gets her to fold. Maybe we catch a Trey. I'd settle for a Five.

On the river, she's getting, what, 6.5:1 that a crap low is good and her call closes the action. I don't fold. Do you?

I can almost see folding to the raise. She's not going to raise with a rough Six, right?

[MarkGritter]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe betting sixth street gets her to fold. Maybe we catch a Trey. I'd settle for a Five.

On the river, she's getting, what, 6.5:1 that a crap low is good and her call closes the action. I don't fold. Do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Heck no, but I've got to be one of the biggest calling stations around at the 10 and 20 games on Stars. I thought we were talking about somebody good. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Hero has aces-up or something strange (like his actual hand) enough that it's almost certainly a mistake folding a low here, but I think we ought to occasionally give people a chance to make that mistake.