AAAAAAAAARGH!

neeeel · #1 01-08-2007, 02:08 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 6 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.00 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.00 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.00 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.00 BB.

these are the hands that are killing me atm.
I did consider folding on the turn, but theres a good chance he doesnt have the Q
even less chance he has the Q when the river shows, so i call down.
was i right, or should i fold

kerowo · #2 01-08-2007, 02:14 PM

Reads? Why do you constantly think that the guy raising you doesn't have top pair beat? Let alone 2nd pair.

Buzz-cp · #3 01-08-2007, 02:15 PM

You are OOP on the turn. I would consider donk/folding the turn in case he has a FD. Unless he's really aggro. I don't call a river bet UI based on turn action.

Befolder · #4 01-08-2007, 02:15 PM

Well there are lots of other hands he could raise with.
OESD, flush draw, PP of some kind. a 2, or a Q.

Those last two have you. Without a read, I probably fold the turn.

neeeel · #5 01-08-2007, 02:20 PM

he didnt raise preflop, so prob doesnt have AK, AA,KK, QQ, maybe even AQ.

So you would fold the flop here?
I dont see the difference between this hand, and the hand i posted a couple of days ago, where i was AA against a straight draw. in that hand, he had to be holding the 9 to beat me, but u said u would never fold in that position, in fact, u would bet. Here , he has to be holding the Q to beat me, but this time u fold?

unterfish · #6 01-08-2007, 02:20 PM

*grunch*
I think this is a fold on the turn. Without any read.
*grunchomatics*

kerowo · #7 01-08-2007, 02:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
he didnt raise preflop, so prob doesnt have AK, AA,KK, QQ, maybe even AQ.

So you would fold the flop here?
I dont see the difference between this hand, and the hand i posted a couple of days ago, where i was AA against a straight draw. in that hand, he had to be holding the 9 to beat me, but u said u would never fold in that position, in fact, u would bet. Here , he has to be holding the Q to beat me, but this time u fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

You really don't see a difference being bet into when you hold an overpair and being bet into when you hold 2nd pair?

bozlax · #8 01-08-2007, 02:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
these are the hands that are killing me atm.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hands don't kill players, players kill themselves.

Just curious, why the preflop raise?

[ QUOTE ]
I did consider folding on the turn, but theres a good chance he doesnt have the Q

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why not 3-jack the flop?

[ QUOTE ]
even less chance he has the Q when the river shows, so i call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, he's aggro enough to have raised a draw second in on the flop, and then bet it all the way down to the river? Where's that read coming from? (See point one, above.)

Befolder · #9 01-08-2007, 02:26 PM

Here's how you can break it down neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel.

It comes down to whether you think you're ahead or not.
First, our hand isn't strong enough to think we can raise too often.
If we're ahead, we don't want to scare the bettor off, we'd rather call down and get maxmum value from a worse hand.

If we think we're beaten, then we want to lose the least, which in this case means folding turn UI in most cases without a read.

If you want to call down, do so, but don't raise w/o knowing why you are doing it.

Better yet answer these two questions:

1) Why are you raising?
2) How often will you get the answer you seek, and if you get it, would it change your choice to raise?

neeeel · #10 01-08-2007, 02:28 PM

in as much as there is 1 card in each example that the villain has to be holding to beat me, then no, i dont see the difference. I guess he is more likely to play a hand with a Q in it , rather than a hand with a 9 in it, but thats the only difference i see.