Betting draws

[Aisthesis]

Thinking about betting strategies, I just came up with the following table for betting draws and wondered what others think. It's obviously a bit oversimplified, as such generalizations are, but it seems to me like a fairly reasonable guideline.

Anyhow, here's the table:

Bet: LP: 8-outer; MP: 13-outer; EP: 17-outer
Call: LP: 13-outer; MP: 13-outer
Raise: LP: 17-outer

I'm suggesting calling in MP as a rule with the 17-outer because you'd like more players in the pot.

Also, I'm DEFINING MP here as having 1 or 2 players left to act. LP is when you're last to act, and EP is having more than 2 players to act.

If the game is pretty aggressive, defined as very likely to get an LP bet, then one can modify MP and EP as follows:

Bet: MP: 8-outer; EP: 13-outer
Checkraise: MP: 13-outer; EP: 17-outer
Call: MP: 17-outer

Another possible addition to this, again an oversimplification but possibly a decent guideline: Count non-nut outs at 1/2 value (e.g., non-nut flush, non-nut straights). That's obviously pretty variable, since you can sometimes count such outs pretty much at full value (e.g., you're certainly up against a set, probably not with the flush draw, too) or at absolutely no value (there's definitely a nut flush draw in the hand).

Anyhow, there are a number of interesting issues here on which I'd appreciate opinions, such as whether check-calling at an aggro table is a stronger move than check-raising (?). Also, I'm classifying the minimal bettable draw in LP as an 8-outer, basically an open-ender and nothing else on a rainbow board.

I'm well-aware that the whole thing is oversimplified, but I'd be interested in whether others agree with this in general principle, just as basic rule of thumb.

[RoundTower]

Ugh. Stuff like this is never appropriate. Just play if you have a good hand or a good draw, otherwise fold.

[Spellmen]

I think setting a rigid table like this would be detrimental to your game. There are plenty of times to fold, raise, or just call with a variety of outs, the important thing is it is player/situation dependent

[Troll_Inc]

[ QUOTE ]
I think setting a rigid table like this would be detrimental to your game. There are plenty of times to fold, raise, or just call with a variety of outs, the important thing is it is player/situation dependent

[/ QUOTE ]

I could see this being not useful to an advanced player (because you can do all this instinctively).

For an intermediate player like myself, I think this is a nice table to compare (and help guide) how I’m betting draws.

I see this being a VERY useful chart for a beginning player to start with and then learn along the way.

[RickyG]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet: LP: 8-outer; MP: 13-outer; EP: 17-outer
Call: LP: 13-outer; MP: 13-outer
Raise: LP: 17-outer

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree with stuff the other posters have said (playing by rote will always lead to mediocre results), If I were recommending to people new to the game how to play draws. I would probably tend to be tighter than this.

The problem is that your edge might be smaller than you think because you are chopping with some of your outs. I also dont see a point in betting an 8 outer on the button when there are 6+ people in the pot. You WILL get called, and you will be behind. Also, in EP I might play something like a 17 outer with a made pair much more agressively than a 17 outer with no made hand (check/raise v. bet/call for example) but so many of these situations are player dependent. Against a table full of too loose-passive calling stations, I would bet 13 outters in EP because I figure to get called in many spots, and thus it is a +ev bet. In a hand with players who check/raise alot, I might check a 13 outer on the button, etc.