correct reasoning for outs & call for draw?

[I R BABOON]

I hope this ain't to basic questions to ask

Titan Limit Hold'em, $0.05/$0.10 (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)

Button ($2.60)
SB ($3.17)
BB ($1.17) (Hero)
MP3 ($3.50)
CO ($5.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks,

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( 1.5BB )
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls,

By the time I had to act it was 5-1 (SB's). I figured 1 of the 2 remaining must have atleast a Q. This leaves me with 3 K's, 4 T's and a BDFD totaling at 8 outs. I counted 1 out for the BDFD and neglected the 3J's because it doesn't improve me to a winner if I hit it (is this correct thinking? Or should I add at least something like 0.5/1 out)

So the flop gives me 5-1 on a 4.9-1 shot so I call.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ( 3BB )
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB calls, Hero...

5-1 on a 5.6-1 shot (7 outs with the BDFD gone)so I should fold.

[Fantam]

Question is fine.

I think that you were over valuing your outs and should have folded on the flop with a weak hand in a small pot.

Turn is also a pretty straightforward fold.

Neither of your opponents may have had a Q. The button could have been betting a flush or straight draw or even something like middle pair.

You dont know what your opponents had, but you probably should not have given yourself 3 outs for pairing your K.

One of your opponents could have had say KQ or K9, and the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] may have completed the flush. Same with the T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

A more reasonable estimate of your outs may have been 1.5 outs for your K overcards and 3 outs for your inside straight draw. Your bdfd to the 3rd nut flush was probably not worth very much, perhaps 0.5 of an out at most.

A possible 5 outs in a small pot was not worth calling a flop bet.

[I R BABOON]

Thanks for the feedback. I totally overlooked the K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[bozlax]

Well done, Fantam.

[Smurph64]

*grunch

1.5 outs max for K which is generous since it could complete straight or flush.

3 outs for ten since 10s is not a great card for you.

maybe .5 outs for bfd here.

so I count 5 outs max being optimistic.

Its a fold on the flop.

[OziBattler]

I R BABOON, welcome to the forums. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] The name btw.

just a couple of things to add
1. 'BB ($1.17) (Hero)' your stack is getting pretty low, consider rebuying so you dont have to worry about it later
2. consider raising preflop
3. consider betting the flop since SB checked and no one has shown any strength
4. be aware that good players very rarely open limp on the button so button is probably NOT a good player...you just need to figure out what sort of bad player he is
5. when posting hands if you have any reads on your opponents that may help make our replies easier then do post then....they really do help us help you

cya on the forum

ozi