2/4NL: Jacks are good?

[setjes]

Villain seems pretty solid. 3bets a decent amount, but this is the first time I see him 4bet. I've 3bet (not too often imo) and called his pfr a couple of times before. The times I 3bet him pfr he folded. It's pretty early in the match, but he stacked off to me a couple hands before. In a reraised pot he shoved over my turn raise with a fd and he missed. Should I see this 4bet in this situation most of the time as strenght, cuz I shouldn't believe him after the bluff he made a couple of hands before and he knows that, or as weakness (tilt)?

FullTiltPoker Game #3861717542: Table Jobe (heads up) - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:02:03 ET - 2007/10/15
Seat 1: Hero($909)
Seat 2: erusugen ($396)
erusugen posts the small blind of $2
Hero posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Jd Jc]
erusugen raises to $12
Hero raises to $36
erusugen has 15 seconds left to act
erusugen has requested TIME
erusugen raises to $108
Hero...

Oh and if u think this is an easy fold or easy call, please tell me what u think is borderline

[En Passant]

I think it's either push or fold, depending on two questions.

1. Do you think he is tilting after stacking off?
2. How many times have 3 bet him? Are you doing it enough where he is getting pissed and wants to take a stand?

You've only invested $36 so far. I think the biggest leak of players is they fall in love with pocket pairs preflop and feel they have to play them no matter what. Unless I know my opponent is tilting, I would probably muck this.

[jay_shark]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's either push or fold, depending on two questions.



[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily .

For instance , you may call the raise and shove all-in on flops that do not contain a q,k, or A . This would actually be more effective if he has overcards to your jacks .

[KakiTee]

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[ QUOTE ]
I think it's either push or fold, depending on two questions.



[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily .

For instance , you may call the raise and shove all-in on flops that do not contain a q,k, or A . This would actually be more effective if he has overcards to your jacks .

[/ QUOTE ]
you are missing the point: villains will realize that it was a coinflip at the start of the hand, and therefore will call your suspect push.

[jay_shark]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's either push or fold, depending on two questions.



[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily .

For instance , you may call the raise and shove all-in on flops that do not contain a q,k, or A . This would actually be more effective if he has overcards to your jacks .

[/ QUOTE ]
you are missing the point: villains will realize that it was a coinflip at the start of the hand, and therefore will call your suspect push.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly my point . There isn't much of a difference between shoving or calling so it's not necessarily a shove or fold situation .

[BarryLyndon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's either push or fold, depending on two questions.



[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily .

For instance , you may call the raise and shove all-in on flops that do not contain a q,k, or A . This would actually be more effective if he has overcards to your jacks .

[/ QUOTE ]
you are missing the point: villains will realize that it was a coinflip at the start of the hand, and therefore will call your suspect push.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly my point . There isn't much of a difference between shoving or calling so it's not necessarily a shove or fold situation .

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been thinking about this for a few minutes, and I'm not sure. Can you expound upon this in terms of fold equity / calling ranges preflop to a push / flop play? Seems like pushing preflop could be SLIGHTLY better in terms of EV if we assume TT comes for the ride? What if we assume a few more 4-bet hands?

Barry

[mayday4379]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's either push or fold, depending on two questions.



[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily .

For instance , you may call the raise and shove all-in on flops that do not contain a q,k, or A . This would actually be more effective if he has overcards to your jacks .

[/ QUOTE ]

i cringe every time i read one of your posts. you don't want these cards to call in case villain has 99/TT

[pushing22]

I thoguht a lot about this one. First off, I'd never call. JJ, maybe more than any other hand, loses value post flop. I think it's a push but it's super close. His reasonable range is prob 77+ and AQ AK. I would give less weight to AA, 77, 88 and AQ. There is also a small chance he is on trash like 44 or KJs. I think JJ is the cutoff but worthy. Although, I generally play $22 SNGS so I can't say I know this level.

[jay_shark]

Call the raise . If he 3-bets a lot then I doubt his 4-bet range consists only of pocket q's and up .

How many hands have you played with this guy ?

If you've played 100 hands and he's never 4-bet , then I would be very concerned .

[Some9]

Get it in quickly. I can easily see him doing this with a lower pair. Also KK+ will just call sometimes while AK will be 4b a larger % of the time.