Metagame

[theprodigalson]

Hey guys, i posted this on p5s before i realized no one there is actually interested in poker theory

Recently i have been doing alot of thinking about different players poker styles, and what makes them succesful. And as a whole, i think the majority of the best poker players play in a similiar matter. There are many differences, but as a whole their games arent way different then the others. But there are others who play significantly different. I.e, Vietcong, comeonphish, etc. To an outsider, and to many "insiders" they both seem to play like raging idiots. Some people claim, that they are just lucky, or dont play good poker. And from the traditional sense, they dont. Vietcongs numbers are absolutely outstanding, and IMO, there is no way he could have lucksacked his way into all those big scores. It just simply cant happen. In anything in life, albeit sports, poker, business, picking up women, etc, the best way to be succesful is to do something different then what everyone else is doing. To quote imperium, "there are so many undiscoveredd strategies in NL Holdem mtt´s.... there are lots of players that win consistentlty in tournaments that are not fundamentally sound... like me for instance."

So my question is, what can we learn from Vietcong? What is it that he does that most of us dont, that gives him such success? Unless your number1pen, you dont play perfect poker, so what can we learn from what they do? From a metagame standpoint, what can we learn from them? I would love to hear peoples opinions on this. Thank you

[odellthurman]

[ QUOTE ]
In anything in life, albeit sports, poker, business, picking up women, etc, the best way to be succesful is to do something different then what everyone else is doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree that it is important to examine different styles in an effort to continually improve, I don't agree with the above comment and don't understand why you would believe it to be true.

[theprodigalson]

hmmm...it would be easier for me to understand how to answer
you if you explained to me why you dont think that is true

[RonFezBuddy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In anything in life, albeit sports, poker, business, picking up women, etc, the best way to be succesful is to do something different then what everyone else is doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree that it is important to examine different styles in an effort to continually improve, I don't agree with the above comment and don't understand why you would believe it to be true.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what he is getting at is that it is a very profitable strategy to find a tactic that takes advantage of the weaknesses of the generally accepted and widely used strategies. This is akin to playing tight at a loose table and playing loose at a tight table.

Specific to his question, he is really asking what strategies can exploit generally accepted MTT play. It is a useful question and a good example is the resteal (props anksy) which countered the trend of the loosening of range for open raising from LP. Once it was generally accepted to open with a wide range from LP, resteal became a profitable strategy. But without the original strategic evolution the new idea would not have sprung.

To do this effectively first you need to summarize what is generally accepted, then figure out the strengths and weakness. From there figure out how to exploit the weaknesses.

This is what business strategists do everyday and a great example from history is Hannibal vs Varro and the battle of Cannae.

[theprodigalson]

For example, picking up women. The generally accepted way to do it is to take a women out for dinner, pay for it, be polite, etc, in an effort to validate yourself to her. Where as it is known amongst men who do well at picking up women that the easiest way to do it, is to make the women try to validate herself to you. In business its coming up with ideas that are different and original to make your business succesful, etc. Sports is a harder example, but i am sure i could think o something

[WarDekar]

[ QUOTE ]
For example, picking up women. The generally accepted way to do it is to take a women out for dinner, pay for it, be polite, etc, in an effort to validate yourself to her. Where as it is known amongst men who do well at picking up women that the easiest way to do it, is to make the women try to validate herself to you. In business its coming up with ideas that are different and original to make your business succesful, etc. Sports is a harder example, but i am sure i could think o something

[/ QUOTE ]

A contrarian approach to sports betting is generally accepted to be a valid strategy (fading public money, especially on big TV games)

[odellthurman]

[ QUOTE ]
hmmm...it would be easier for me to understand how to answer
you if you explained to me why you dont think that is true

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for the short post. I thought your comment was way too general and broad. If you want to be a successful basketball player, for example, I think that the best way to accomplish it is to study the fundamentals of basketball and work hard on them - - not try to come up with some new way of running, jumping, shooting, and defending.

Likewise, in poker, I think your best bet at success would be to read a bunch of good poker books and then work on your game. Sure, as you get better, you might try some different things. But I don't agree that the best way to be successful would be to just do something different from every other player.