QJs

[neeeel]

$1/$2 Limit
Hero is UTG + 2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Pre flop
2 folds, hero calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 3 folds, SB calls, BB calls, hero calls

Flop comes 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB checks, hero checks,MP2 bets, SB folds, BB calls, hero raises, MP2 calls, BB calls( all-in)

Turn comes T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
hero bets, MP2 calls

River comes 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
hero bets MP2 calls

According to PT MP2 is a TAP

preflop should probably be a fold, but i called since there were a few fish in the game who i hoped would limp in.
I check raised the flop since i knew MP2 would probably bet out, and i wanted to trap BB, and show strength.
Once MP3 called, i felt i probably had the best hand, so bet out on the turn, where i had some good outs. The river didnt change anything, so i bet out again

Comments on all streets pls. bad preflop call? too aggressive on the flop?

[Niediam]

I usually lead the flop because with 3 opponents you cant be sure that the PFR is going to fire.

Rest is fine.

[Tevac]

I think your preflop play is problematic. A raise would have helped a lot clarifying the other players. Given that you have just called, I would be inclined to fold to the MP2 bet preflop.

Turn and River bet: Depending on the size of the bet, I would consider them more continuation bets than real value bets.

If your villain is really TAG, I would put him on AQ or QK, which would both dominate you.

[fretelöo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think your preflop play is problematic. A raise would have helped a lot clarifying the other players. Given that you have just called, I would be inclined to fold to the MP2 bet preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

uhm... no...!! (hint: What are your chances of flopping a decent hand - what odds are you getting?)

[neeeel]

fret we are getting 10:1 on the flop, would you just call here? with 4 ppl on the flop, maybe we cant count MP2s bet as a c-bet, do we credit him with a hand just yet? I feel that maybe i am being too aggressive with hands like this, and over estimating the strength, but at the same time, if we have the best hand, we want money in there.

Whats the difference between a TAP and a TAG, do they play pretty much the same starting hands?

[fretelöo]

[ QUOTE ]
fret we are getting 10:1 on the flop, would you just call here? with 4 ppl on the flop, maybe we cant count MP2s bet as a c-bet, do we credit him with a hand just yet? I feel that maybe i am being too aggressive with hands like this, and over estimating the strength, but at the same time, if we have the best hand, we want money in there.

Whats the difference between a TAP and a TAG, do they play pretty much the same starting hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't go by PTs labelling of players. I have pahud, thus the most releveant stats right on the table and I get to my own conclusion. He'll bet basically any flop. This hand is completely standard and if you indeed lost to KQ or KK or whatnot, lol@him for saving you money.

[neeeel]

King otter, i would probably have folded to a re-raise on the flop, or called, and checked the turn, though with 8 outs to a straight it would be hard to fold the turn too.
u also get 10 bonus points for reading villains hand, well done :P
This happens to me quite a lot, that i have TPMK, raise on the flop, and the other guy goes 'oh no', then just calls down, and my rage level rises. Which is why im wondereing wether this is too aggressive, or they are just being too passive.

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]
King otter, i would probably have folded to a re-raise on the flop, or called, and checked the turn, though with 8 outs to a straight it would be hard to fold the turn too.
u also get 10 bonus points for reading villains hand, well done :P
This happens to me quite a lot, that i have TPMK, raise on the flop, and the other guy goes 'oh no', then just calls down, and my rage level rises. Which is why im wondereing wether this is too aggressive, or they are just being too passive.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a symptom of playing dominated hands like QJ too much. They're problem hands, and hard to get away from when you flop top-pair and so they cost you more money than they're really worth.

That's why this is a fold pre-flop in EP with 2 folds to you. QJs you want to play with 4+ people, and you want to flop a redraw to a big hand like a flush or a straight. With aggressive people behind you open-limping in is a dangerous thing.

You played it well postflop, considering, but if you had gotten any push back you should have folded. I'm thinking primarily turn/river. I wouldn't have folded the flop for one more, but called and then check/folded the turn UI.

IMO he also played his hand well, because if he had pushed back he would have lost bets (hopefully).

[Tevac]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think your preflop play is problematic. A raise would have helped a lot clarifying the other players. Given that you have just called, I would be inclined to fold to the MP2 bet preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

uhm... no...!! (hint: What are your chances of flopping a decent hand - what odds are you getting?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess your "no" is meant for my last sentence. That I think I understand given the numbers of players in the flop and just one call needed to see the flop.

Do you think my first line of a possible raise is also rubbish or would you consider that possible?

[NIX]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think your preflop play is problematic. A raise would have helped a lot clarifying the other players. Given that you have just called, I would be inclined to fold to the MP2 bet preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

uhm... no...!! (hint: What are your chances of flopping a decent hand - what odds are you getting?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess your "no" is meant for my last sentence. That I think I understand given the numbers of players in the flop and just one call needed to see the flop.

Do you think my first line of a possible raise is also rubbish or would you consider that possible?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't open with QJs in EP, but raising is far and away superior to limp/folding for one bet.