[Fiasco]

im inclined to fold pre, and to fold the flop as well. Thats the kind of weak-tight advise I normally dont give, but Ive been falling into this trap recently of getting overwhelmed by my pot odds in LO8 (which are never really as good as they look) and getting dragged along for more bets than its worth.

Im sure buzz can give you an analysis of the chances that someone has TJ, and that someone else has higher backdoor hearts or spades. Im not going to go that far, but I will say that in addition to the fact that you have no draws to the nuts, non of your non-nut draws are all that great either (your flush draws are backdoor, and your straight draw will put a one card straight out).

Its hard to fold in these loose passive games, but you can bleed a lot if you dont stick to the ABC. Wait till you get something nice that you can jam, dont chase weak draws.