[Zygote]

[ QUOTE ]
but there is a huge difference in wanting to murder every last one. Palestinians are educated to believe - literally - that Jews are animals and intrinsically evil AND at the same time, schooled in violence and brutality.

[/ QUOTE ]

other than killing everyone, even though felix is a hair away from that conclusion, you can pretty much switch every instance of Jew and Palestinian in the above quote to make up the general view in this thread.


[ QUOTE ]
Whilst distasteful, jokes between friends do not lead to the sorts of things the Palestinians have been doing.


[/ QUOTE ]

israel has done no harm?

israel is entitled to something, they aren't entitled to everything they want just because those influencing the government thought its their god given right.

[ QUOTE ]
We are not talking of a few families teaching their children to murder - we are talking about official (goverment controlled) media and religius figures.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh the government of the non existent Palestinian state?

the official media doesnt have to be equal either. im not saying both sides are equal in crimes or distortion by any extent. both sides have dirty records on both counts though. im saying to over generalize either side is a big mistake.

[ QUOTE ]
The number of people who would have supported his assasination was miniscule but, unfortunately, to be expected - there are insane people in every country. We are not talking of a few families teaching their children to murder - we are talking about official (goverment controlled) media and religius figures.

[/ QUOTE ]

insane people just become more popular in the state of society within the territories than outside them. arab culture doesn't help but no religious culture helps, including fanatical jewish culture. Fortunately Israel more secular.

aside, official figures in the US and israel have advocated horrible things.

you also seem to be saying that all arabs are responsible for the crimes of the few but this shouldnt be true for jews?

[ QUOTE ]


Can you really be that flippant about the withdrawal from Gaza!? Do you really not understand how excruciatingly painful and divisive this was for the country? Families had been encouraged to live there by Labour and Likud governments since 1967. They believed they were doing their duty (some religious, some national, some both) to settle the land. Grandparents, parents and children were buried on that land where they had lived and worked for 40 years. Even for supporters of the withdrawal in Israel, it was an incredibly difficult event. How would you react exactly?


[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree with you that this is tough. I was also wrong the way i seemingly generalized how the jews reacted as i was only referring to certain ones.

the problem with your analysis is you completely ignore the people on the other end but have full compassion for every israeli issue.

Palestinians dont react for no reason either, for the most part. israel has a lot to answer for.

[ QUOTE ]


"bidding"? You speak like supporters of the likud party are mysterious evil masterminds! You sound exactly like someone who has uncritically listened to the propaganda. Also, religious beliefs are only a part of it - have you never heard of secular zionists - have you ever been to Israel?


[/ QUOTE ]

yes ive been to israel. i know of secular zionists and my grand father there is a prime example. either way, the politics have been heavily influenced by religious fanatics and a lot of the secular israelis are very pissed off about it. I also dont think they are necessarily evil masterminds. Many are just stuck in what they know and are so obsessed with certain parts of jewish culture and religion that they feel they are doing the world a favor by spreading their land.

[ QUOTE ]



I never said that hatred dosnt exist on the Israeli side - of course it does. But your idea that Israel is run by religious madmen who see the murder of arabs as a righteous obligation is simply ignorant. Your 3 cousins are irrelevant - we are talking about a nation. You say that they believe that they should be "horrible" to arabs. Did they advocate the murder of innocent arabs? Have they done, seen or been encouraged to do this? Or do they just mean that the measures that Israel must take to defend its civilians are unpleasant but necessary, in their opinion?

They are also Israeli, therefore you cant really use the word "biased" to describe their views. They are not observers from the outside. Im sure that they dont like arabs. Most people wouldnt if they lived through the intifada when over a thousand civilians were murdered inside Israel, week by week and they had to join the army for 3 years at the age of 18 instead of going to clubs, meeting girls and travelling the world.

I apologise if my tone is harsh, but by the things you write, it seems that you really have a very superficial and naive view of the situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

for one im very supportive of israel. this thread is only revealing one side of my views.

i just dont think you a realizing that there is another side and they have very much of the same claims and its not like one side kills for zero reason and the other side kills only in compassionate selfless ways.