[bkholdem]

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McCain is a national hero?

Oh wait, I forgot that for some reason people consider bad things happening to you to be heroic. Nevermind, carry on.

*goes and heroicly jumps into the Grand Canyon*

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The guy was offered an out-of-sequence release by the North Vietnamese because his father was a relatively-famous commander in the Navy and he turned it down because he didn't think it was fair to get sent home before other less-well-connected POWs who had been imprisoned for longer were forced to stay; he was then mercilessly tortured because of the refusal to leave.

I suppose we can debate what it means to be a "hero" and the nobility of purpose of flying jets in Vietnam, but you jumping into the Grand Canyon != McCain being offered the chance to escape imprisonment and torture but refusing to do so because it violated a dearly held principle. Not that I would expect your typical ACist to actually understand any of this kind of nuance, or why someone would do something like experience terrible physical trauma because of fidelity to dearly held principles (I know, I know -- you and Nielsio and other ACtards have experienced the terrible pain and suffering that the jackbooted thuggery of state authority and their taxation, which has wrought terribly wretched and painful lives upon you, which can only be remedied by sacrificing enormous time and energy...by posting about it on an the intraweb and YouTube. That is umm, a little similar, but not exactly the same).

Anyway, I thought it important to point this out, just in case there were other people like gobbomom out there who thought you were funny but hadn't quite considered why your analogy was retarded.

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Hmm... jumping into the Grand Canyon = tremendously stupid decision

Willingly choosing to be stay imprisoned and be tortured = tremendously stupid decision

Seems like a good analogy to me!

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Is this a joke? Standing on principle with a consequence of personal harm is heroic by most standards, and in no way analogous to nonsensical self-mutilation.


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If the "principle" is dumb and pointless, then yes it's entirely analogous to nonsensical self-mutilation. If the Vietnamese were releasing people on some set schedule and him getting released early bumped everyone else back a slot, then him making this sacrifice would indeed be heroic, but how did what he did actually help anyone? It did't! Thus, it was just dumb. It's not standing on principle that's heroic, it's standing on heroic principles. This wasn't anything but dumb. And you know what? I really don't want a president who would willingly sacrifice our entire country a ridiculous code of "honor." That's what the Japanese did at the end of WWII and it was dumb then too, not heroic.

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If you were forced to make a pact with someone when going into a dangerous situation, all other things being equal, who would you rather make a pact with, Mcain or some random stranger, and why?

I don't know anything more of Mcain's history than I have read here, but to me he sounds like someone who has a strong character and can be counted on for his loyalty. I happen to value loyalty a great deal.