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Old 11-22-2007, 12:07 PM
RyanCMU RyanCMU is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Folding Split Pots
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Default Re: RYANCMU teaches struggling NL50 and NL100 players

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A common situation I found troubling when I first started at 100NL was holding an overpair or like an AK that hits and then having my c-bet min raised. especially when I'm out of position. Obviously, there are a lot of variables that go into a situation like this, but maybe you could talk about some of the things you analyze in such a situation.

For example lets say its folded to you in MP and you raise with QcQs (you have a solid tag image), you are called by the button (100bb deep, same as you and you have his stats at 12/10/2.5 and no other reads) and everyone else folds. Flop comes 4c8cTd, you lead for 3/4 on the pot and he min-raises you. It isn't uncommon at SSNL for a player to min-raise a set like this, it's also not uncommon for a player to be 'feeler' raising you with like AT, JJ or 99, additionally they could be raising with a flush or straight draw trying to slow you down/maybe pick up the pot here or at least get you to give them a free river. To me, these are the types of decisions on how to proceed that separate the better players from the good ones.

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I have never seen a min raise from a competent player that wasn't an accident. The times I have seen seemingly competent players make min raises they have been horrible situations, and having seen them so, quickly changed my perspective of them from competent to donk.

If we assume he is 12/10/2.5 like you said, I think we also have to assume that he is a reasonable player.

If a reasonable player really going to miss out knowingly on possible FE, by min raising a draw on the flop? Certainly never w/ their strong combo draws.

Would they really minraise a set on a coordinated board like that? Thanks for pricing me in w/ a FD, with your meaningless raise?

If we can start to make assumptions and generalizations about their play based on their stats, we can sort of narrow down what he would be min raising here. In your example vs. a seemingly resonably (stat wise) TAG, I think if he did min-raise here (which I don't think would ever happen) his range would be like you said AT/JJ/99 marginal 1pair type hands. And we can proceed accordingly.

I find though that really the only player type that is min raising us regularly (aside from horrible donks that populate the games) are the 10/3/1 nits who are on 24/7. And usually from them it's almost always a set or a slow played premium over pair.

Also, sometimes a c/mr is a lot different then a minraise when they have posistion. I find the horrible players are more likely to minraise in pos. w/ draws marginal hands, and when they c/mr its generally on the upper end of their range.

Again, in all my hands at SSNL, I really don't remember getting min raised very often by reasonable opponents.
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