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I think most would agree that the vast vast majority of Stud 8 hands played today and for the last few years are very unlike the games written about by Zee, Brunson, and whoever. Yes probably 99% of Stud 8 hands played are played online now but how long will it be before the influence of online play will finally overrun the few pockets of oldtimer live play remaining in LA etc.

As always what works, works however KK doesn't play well in a crowd and it is more crowded these days. This is not to say that Zee, etc. are incorrect or not helpful. Their work could just use some tweaking to be more current. QJT suited sucks now.

Times are changing and Razz works are likely to experience the same growing pains.

Patty

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Thanks Patty, glad to see someone else is actually listening to this debate.