[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
I would sooner take my chances with AA65 with a suited A, than with A49Q with a suited A - in a full ring game.

[/ QUOTE ]1MoreFish4U - Me too.

[ QUOTE ]
Is any A4 suited combo much ahead of an AA5 suited A combo? - or just fractional?

[/ QUOTE ]No. Probably not at all.

But you're adding a suited ace to AA.

My comparison was between two aces and an ace-suited-to-a-four. And before any action in the hand. And before the flop.

Things change after action, and then certainly after the flop.

It's admittedly difficult (if not impossible) to separate two cards from the four cards within a hand. All the cards play together.

It's a moot point with me, because I'm going to want to see the flop with either of those holdings within a hand (AnAnXY or As4sXnYn). And I have them pretty close.

If the ace in the AAXY hand is suited, that adds another dimension to the hand and it becomes even better. Add a wheel card (like the five you added) and it's even better.

I fully realize you cannot separate two cards from the four within a starting hand. In truth, all four of the cards affect the probability of the outcome of a hand.

It's just that people talk about a pair of aces. (Indeed, this very thread is about a pair of aces). And if you're going to do that, comparing other two card holdings within a hand to the pair of aces suggests itself, at least to me.

And anyway, I do, rightly or wrongly, tend to think about the various two card combinations within a hand. And when I do that, before the flop I think of ace-four suited as being just a tiny bit better than ace-ace without the suits and without an extra wheel card. (And a lot depends on how particular individuals within the group and also on the group as a whole is playing and also on position. It's pretty hard to isolate two cards within a hand and compare them to two other cards within a hand without taking many various factors into consideration. I was innocently trying to simplify).

Would I prefer AA5-suited plus a random card to A4-suited plus two random cards? Of course I would! It's no contest.

Here's maybe a better comparison, from my data base for nine non-folding hands:
AA55s 561 567 812 1940
A455s 338 775 657 1770

AA5Ts 521 531 769 1821
A45Ts 336 775 629 1740

AA5Ks 532 534 744 1810
A45Ks 334 806 671 1811

Focus on the right hand column. As the fourth card in the hand becomes higher, comparing AA5Xs to A45Xs, the gap between AA4Xs and A45Xs narrows. (1810 and 1811 are virtually the same. If I re-ran the same simulations, AA5Ks and A45Ks might exchange places. Indeed, because of the higher scoop potential, I think AA5Ks is a slightly better starting hand than A45Ks. But it's a moot point. If I can't see the flop with both of those fine but non-premium hands, I need to find another table.)

Buzz