[Dennisa]

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Discussion really needs to get back on track which includes less lecturing about how various laws work in one country or another.
Turtle is really derailing this thread and I believe should be banned. This is not to say that taking FT's side in this is necessarily wrong or reason for banning. REK is mostly on FT's side too I believe but states his position intelligently and provides and interesting viewpoint without taking the thread onto ridiculous insult-tangents.
But turtle is too much right now and either needs to calm down or needs to go because he's mostly just succeeding in getting everybody riled up at him and isn't really furthering the discussion in the least.

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Thanks MicroBob, for trying to get this back on track. It was getting slightly ridiculous.

Just to make clear - I am not on the side of FTP. I actually am very much on the fence here. On the one hand, I can see how a fraud investigation could realistically take weeks to unravel. So, I don't think it wrong that sillysal's account is blocked whilst they get to the bottom of it.

On the other hand, if sillysal is innocent then I totalling understand his/her being very stressed out and worried. If all she is guilty of is unknowingly playing against a chip dumper then it is very unfortunate. But once it is known by FTP that something serious has occurred then accounts must be blocked whilst the investigation proceeds. I think we must all accept this could happen to us as well.

As FTP rightly state they may have to contact other players and outside agencies such as credit card companies and get responses from them. Realistically this could take some weeks to do. The credit card companies may even call police authorites in if the fraud is large and indeed if it is part of a much wider money laudering scam that could even involve potential terrorist funding programs (unlikely but not impossible) the investigation could go on for months.

The only real problem I have with FTP is they should be experienced in these scams and in each case they should have a more realistic timescale to give players an idea of how long it is likely to take. They do claim to have responded to sillysal's emails within 24 hours and she has not disputed this.

Where I take the opposite view from a lot of posters here is that just because the sum involved here is $47K doesn't give any justification for not completing a full investigation.

sillysal, or any poster, can come on here and make all sorts of claims that may or may not be true. FTP, on the other hand, are very limited to the disclosures thay can give on a particular case. I, for one, would be fuming if FTP posted all deatails regarding my account on 2+2. They are in a very awkward position. Apart from saying these matters are being investigated and results will be given to the concerned parties in due course, I see little else they can do here. Any time FTP make a statement posters hurl abuse and want to know more.

sillysal sounds innocent enough but if guilty is hardly going to come on here and say "fair cop, FTP got it right I was assisting in chip dumping".

I think it is now best to let the investigation conclude and hope that sillysal lets us know the full outcome in due course.

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Rek,

While I understand the FTP does not want to take losses in credit card transactions, it is the cost of doing business as an online card room.

The investigation should be whether sillysal is in cohoots with the fraudsters. They can tell this by looking at her playing history. They should within a weeks time determine if this is the case. If she has not colluded with the alleged fraud team SHE SHOULD BE CLEARED REGARDLESS how the credit card company rules.

If full tilt is not wiling to absorb bad credit card transactions, then they should lower the limits of transactions until their player build up credit history with their site.

Dennisa