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A general question- if we are raised on the flop, would we have rather bet $15 or $25? Or to say it differently, assuming the raise is 3x our bet, would we rather go to the turn with $150 behind and a $120 pot, or $125 behind and a $180 pot?

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This is a very important point in the matter.

If you get raised by one of the tight players you are absolutely hating it. If they raise you to 3x you are still getting decent odds but the size of your initial bet changes things dramatically. If you bet 25 and are raised to 75 you will have approx. 125 left in a post of 180. This makes calling not a great option because you are still going to be in a tough spot on the turn. Pushing isn't great because a bluff doesn't call. Folding isn't awesome either because you are potentially getting pushed off TPTK in an already big pot with not a lot behind. All 3 options are not the greatest.

However, if you bet 15 and get raised to 45 you can still call the raise without being in such a terrible spot on the turn. If you call the raise you will have about 150 behind in a post 100. This is much more manageable than having 125 in a pot of 180.


For those who say that 15 is too weak and that you will get bluffed off your hand - sit in a tight players shoes. You call a tight players UTG raise with a PP or maybe AK/AQ and the flop comes A85. Now that tight player bets half of the pot into a 3 way pot. What could the tight player have? What are you bluffing him off of? Now imagine he bets 3/4 the pot? Does that really change anything as far as his range goes? It still is a show of strength. The tight player has a hand. Why are you picking this spot to bluff?
You aren't!

If hero bets out 15 in this pot he gets all of the same benefits as if he bet more than 20 with less of the risk. He is still putting his stack out there, but he isn't putting himself in as tough of a situation if he gets raised.

As far as Kurt asking how this made me rethink things... there is some second level stuff that can come into play. I will leave it up to you to dig further. This is once we get into read-land and isn't appropriate for purpose of this post. It would only muddy the waters.