[milesdyson]

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some people are saying "he might have JJ." oh, really? so he just called preflop, got a great flop/turn and just called?

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Miles, so forget about the fact that JJ would probably cap preflop. The above quote is YOURS. You are saying this is a great flop for JJ anyone would put in more action on an earlier street etc. etc.

Then you go on to say:

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i expect to see a ten play this way very often. i play a ten this way very often, in fact, and i know several other players who do the same.

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So you are drawing that big of a distinction between something like JTs and JJ here? Forget my argument about 3 betting the river entirely, this is like a brand new subject here. That is just crazy to me, I don't think you could be more wrong. How can you say JJ needs to raise postflop but JTs shouldn't. They are like the same hand on this board!

-DeathDonkey

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i think of calling with JJ+ preflop as a "disguise my hand" play and expect these hands to raise postflop on good boards. did he really just call with JJ preflop in order to call down a ten high board? no. did he call preflop with JT to call down a ten high board? sure.

besides, there is a 5+% difference in equity between JT and JJ and ATo/KTs in the preflop 3-bettor's hand is going to go more bets thinking he has the nuts. they're similar hands, sure, but with JJ you'll only worry about 3 over pairs vs. 4 when you hold a ten.

the main reason i discount JJ almost completely is the combination of pre and postflop action, so you telling me to ignore what i've stated about the preflop action is certainly going to make what i've said sound weird. but you mistunderstood my posts, i guess.