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Old 10-21-2007, 07:39 PM
Exsubmariner Exsubmariner is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Doing It Deeper
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Default A level headed discussion about Implicit Collusion, 2p2, and AP

Mods, please feel free to move this if it seems to controversial, but I feel like I need to get it off my chest and out into the open.

Human relationships are tricky. I like to contemplate them and read about economics and study people in general.

Perhaps this concept is old hat to some, but for those who haven't considered it, I think it's important to get out into the open for discussion.

I haven't weighed in or followed the Absolute Scandal until recently because I feel it is a re-run of previous episodes where cheating was exposed in the online world. I no longer play online, mostly prompted to stop by these earlier episodes.

Anyone familiar with tournament poker should be familiar with this concept.

In poker, sometimes when a player with a short stack at the end of a tournament is all in, multiple other players will call and they will all check down. That's because one hand out against the all in player is not as good a chance of eliminating him as the multiple hands. That's implicit collusion. Multiple parties have an interest in something and don't exactly cooperate, but don't work against each other either.

The case of a cheating poker site is similar. Poker players who make their living online are dependent in a way on the poker site. The poker site needs to keep operating in order to provide a venue for the players to make their living. Therefore, if there is knowledge about the site cheating, it is in the best interest of the players to keep mum. The appearance of integrity is far more important than the integrity actually existing. Banking establishments and securities trading companies have been aware of this for centuries.

Those of you out there who have chosen poker as your living should keep in mind that you may value integrity, and may want it to exist at your favorite site, but at the same time, you can't cut off your nose in spite of your face.

Shutting down AP and depriving them of their reputation is not going to fix the problem of online cheating. Seeking relationships with sites as outside auditors will go light years beyond the mob witch-hunt every time there is a cheating episode.

A political organization similar to the PPA seems to be a viable solution from my view. I can envision an organization that watches the poker sites, collects hand histories and other data and analyzes it for such incidents, then assigns a rating to the sites based on how they handle the incidents. You have transparency in a situation like that, which is not what ganging up on a poker site gets you after a situation like this one. The poker site just shuts up and doesn't cooperate at all.

Bottom line, implicit collusion is either a problem or a solution between sites and players with regard to cheats.
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