[stigmata]

not sure you get value from these hands with the flop check raise.... e.g. anything that can withstand your check-raise is either ahead of you or has reasonable equity on the flop. He has position, and if he calls the flop, when the turn comes we are in a pretty crappy spot oop, but he is going to be playing reasonably correctly. If the money then goes in the turn, again we are likely in deep doo doo.