[bkholdem]

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But complaining about style rather than content is a good way to get a couple of ad hominems in while looking civil and sophisticated.

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See, you're just being nasty and snide. I've spent a lot of time addressing the content of your arguments, and doing my best to do so fairly.

"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument."

Complaints about style are not ad hominems. Perhaps it's a 'meta-complaint' but I am not attacking you as a person.

I hear what bk is saying about catching baseless assumptions, but I think it's simple enough to take the time to respond to a baseless assumption in a normal discussion format. Regarding the complaint that it's a 'pain in the ass' to go back and forth, well, perhaps that's the cost of doing business. Taking the time to read and reread a post, and refer to it in a subsequent response, requires you to do your best to understand your counterpart's position and give it a fair shake.



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Other points about the line by line rebuttals. I don't know about PVN's education but from the little logic and semantics I took the line by line rebuttal seems to flow naturally from the little education I received on those subjects. In semantics/logic one learns to break down sentences and examine their meanings (and by extention paragraphs, etc).

And when it comes to PVN in particular I love it when he responds point by point. I happen to know something about 'reframing' as a psychological technique used in conversation to help people see situations differently. I consider myself to be pretty good at reframing. However PVN is an absolute ARTIST when it comes to reframing. He is a grandmaster in reframing and uses this skill to make very powerful points. If you are ideologically against his points I can see why this would upset you lol.