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Old 10-15-2007, 06:01 PM
Small Fry Small Fry is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 761
Default Re: value bet, need some help here

[ QUOTE ]
i understand about IE2
but for IE1, nobody fear a straight? T9 with OESD, there are people that would call this down to the river.
or AM I seeing too many monster under the bed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not unless I get reraised on the river. Then that goes into the realm of possible hands. (I assumed you bet enough to give bad odds to the straight draw. If they're willing to take the worst of it you'll get their money sooner, rather than later).

So ,lets assume you bet river and get raised. Possible hands include top pair, two pair, sets and the straight. You beat all the top pair and two pairs and some sets. Unless you know that this player would only reraise you with a hand that is the nuts or real close (so at a minimum he has to have a set of Jacks to reraise) you must call.

IT comes back to knowing your opponent. If you can fold to a raise with confidence that you're beat then a bet here on the end is even more important. If you check it , he'll bet and you'll have to call. You lose one bet either way. But if you allow it to go check / check the times he would have called and lost, that is when you are leaving money on the table.

IMO, the only reason to check this is against a tricky opponent where you cannot be at all sure of what his river raise might mean. Folding costs you the whole pot and would be a terrible mistake. Calling when you're beat is bad but much less of a mistake than folding so you must call. So now you lose two bets. The one nice thing about tricky opponents is they also tend to like bluffing. So checking the river allows him to bluff at it and you gain value from this (value check....lol)when you call and win. Sometimes you call and lose, but it's only 1 bet.

ps. some of the above assumes pot sizes are (much) larger than stacks or current bets (like a limit game). If it's NL then it gets trickier. But generally in NL you do not value bet as much as in limit.
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