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Old 08-23-2007, 08:06 PM
Nielsio Nielsio is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,570
Default Re: Some thoughts/clarifications

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First of all, I'd like to say that I don't mean to appear "overly critical" of AC, as if I have some sort of agenda against it or whatnot.

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No offense taken. It's pretty clear that you are hungry for clarity of thought/worldview and that you're going through a storm lately.


You may like this:

Jonah and the Whale
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtuinWQkTfY


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Whether or not socialism can be logically defended doesn't interest me (cause it's so obvious to me that it can't be).

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Nice.



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So all I have worth talking about is my mild disagreement with (maybe lack of understanding of) AC and how exactly you guys view the world.

Granted, this is a politics forum, so I guess the entire point is to convince people that your way is best. I guess maybe it's understood that you have some "agenda" when you open your mouth. So maybe that's what throws me off. If we're just talking about "Theoretically what's the best system" with the assumption that there is an answer, then I agree AC is the best answer. But, I don't see breaking the biases that would practically allow us to act on that as necessarily good.

Presently, most human beings are not comfortable with AC. It makes erroneous sense that they need to form a state. Is it good to try to persuade them until they agree, sure, if that's what you consider a good use of your time. But if I had a switch that could somehow make states disappear, while keeping our condition exactly the same, I wouldn't flip it (in the same vein that I wouldn't have my dog sleep on a clear glass floor, even if it was where I preferred him).

So to me, what I "stand for" is not anarchism. What I stand for is people (and by extension myself) being better off. And having a comfortable environment that makes sense contributes to that. So what I stand for is "Anarchy when it follows suit of a sentiment that believes anarchy is good." Or in other words, simply "people acting based on what they believe is best."

If you believe in AC in the sense that you believe it's best philosophically, then I don't disagree. But the practical effects of the application are a different issue. People talk about it as if ridding the biases that would allow for it does not happen without a cost.

So philosophically would it be best for the world in the long-run to flip the switch, sure. But it wouldn't be best *for me*. To me, myself, my friends, and my family are a higher value than the wellbeing of future generations whom I don't care about.

So for me to be comfortable "supporting" AC (which is essentially "flipping the switch" divided by a huge number) I would have to believe that ridding bias is without cost, or at least that it's always worth it. And I don't believe that.

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Ok, I see what you're getting at.

Three points:

* 1. As I've said a number of times before in this forum: the strategy towards freedom is for the zeitgeist to change. As long as people believe in the state/domination then that's what is going to exist. What ACists try to do is transform people's eyes. It tries to show people what actually is good (voluntarism) and what actually is bad (coercion). It's really a red pill blue pill situation. We don't really want to 'flip the switch'. What we want is for The State Delusion to fly away as if it never existed. And as the ideas of people change, so will society. Just look at those polls lately. How many hundreds of millions of Americans now think Congress are a bunch of crooks? Do you see the change happening before your eyes?

* 2. What's 'best'. Talking about the problems of ridding the state is fine and all, but you must realize that you're talking about troubles with the radio adjustment while your car is heading for a cliff, and it's on fire, and the engine is about to explode, and ... I think you get it. The United States is heading straight for bankruptcy/fascism/WWIII.

* 3. Don't underestimate the people's natural ingenuity. You won't believe how quick people are going to come up with brilliant solutions for problems once they get the FREEDOM to do so. Also don't underestimate just how much people's ingenuity and freedom has been absolutely crushed. If you think Apple is a wonder of the free market then you ain't seen nothing yet.
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