[RobDoral]

[ QUOTE ]
hi
i'm a low limit player, mostly plays between 1/2-3/6.

i consider myself to be an ok player who knows the obvious, but it seems as though whenever im up big, i start to catch a run of real [censored] cards for a long duration of time. i either get my big hand cracked cuz they sucked out on me, or i just dont make my big [censored] draws 9 out of 10 times.

now i know there'r many successful no limit players online, and maybe there'r some successful high limit players, too, but i wonder if there r any consistent low limit players?

some claim that if ur patient enuf then u'll beat those games, i agree to an extent cuz i have done it, too, but overall i dont think its worth it. i do make some small profit but the time i put in plus all that stress i get from stupid hyper donk chasers, i only do slightly better than minium wages. those things catch up with u eventually with a job as well so it led me to think i either have to learn to play no limit holdem or just quit altogether.

i seriously doubt if there r any consistent low limit winners.

any practical advice and some of ur low limit stories r welcome

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I am a consistent winning low limit limit holdem player. There are some who've played against me who'd say I was a huge donk (a view I prefer to encourage) but I do win, and win consistently though I have some holes in my game.

Here are some thoughts in no particular order:

1) Limit poker is more subject to variance (luck) than no limit because you can't really change the pot odds and it's hard to win without showing down the best hand. You might not face the big swings of NL players who think in terms of losing or winning a certain number of buy ins but good NL players know how to reduce their variance and of course they don't always need good cards to win.

Remember that you can play perfectly and lose to someone else who also played perfectly (at least post flop) and caught the draw he had the odds to chase (and face it, 72 is not that much of a dog against ak since no one has made a hand yet, the flop is absolutely key to poker and starting hand selection only gets you so far). This is the nature of the game. If you find yourself in one of those long term losing streaks then you should reevaluate your game and make sure you don't have any obvious leaks (e.g. calling an UTG raise with AJo, you'd be better off calling with a hand like 45s and if you don't understand why then you're missing some key ideas). Make sure you apply the key concepts of position and preflop hand selection (most limit books offer pretty much the same starting hand charts). I know some of what I've said already seems to conflict but it's best IMO to work on the fundamentals first and start to tweak the rest of your play next. It's possible to deviate from the suggestions profitably (picking on ABC poker multitablers for example) but you need to know what you're trying to do and why by stepping away from ABC poker (because the ABC players are still making far fewer mistakes than others).

2) Avoid what I call the death spiral. One of my biggest leaks is paying off on the river again and again when I'm almost positive I'm beat because hey, it's just one more bet. It's ok to call and try to pick off a bluff now and then (if you notice the player has a tendency to donk bet scare cards for example) since sucess means paying for those other occasions a bit but when you're getting your butt kicked it usually just means one extra big bet lost, and those add up. I also don't mind doing this a couple of times (and I really mean at best two times)if I can gain some insight into how my opponent beat me and use that info later against him but it's easy to start tossing money away just to see whatever sick beat you just had laid on you. You're better off just making something up in your head that beats you and fold with some confidence, screw it if you don't know for sure.

3) Stop loss figures are KEY. This has been my biggest leak recently. Even if you play perfectly you're going to lose some days and there's nothing you can do about it but control the bleeding. I lost over 150% of my total BR adding together three very bad nights in Sept. If it were not for some good steady days in between, a heavy dose of discipline (eventually), and some luck I wouldn't be back up to my old figure already but if I'd actually followed this advice and quit after a 10% loss each night I would have won a large amount for the month. Live and learn. I even read in chat one night a couple of idiots noting that I was tilting again. If an idiot can notice this kind of thing then you know you have a problem. I'd suggest quitting, no matter what, if you lose 10-12% of your bankroll in one session. Go play violent video games or something if you need to hurt someone.

4) Another KEY. Make sure you're playing in games that suit your style and are actually profitable for you (I find it helpful to have funds on 2-3 sites at once and play only on a site when the games look good). I prefer loose games (nofold holdem) and chasing down big pots but it can be hard to dodge 3 or more opponents chasing you down to the river each time (that's where your preflop monsters keep getting picked off and you have to learn to be ok with it). You have to adapt to the site and tables that's you're on and if there are too many good players, leave (for example, I don't like to play limit cash games on Stars because while there are plenty of fish, I find the average player to be more skilled than elsewhere). I'll leave it to you to figure out which sites are tight/loose. Another personal anecdote that is somewhat related. I've been getting my ass kicked on Stars when I've played SNGs recently (I like to add some variety to my poker and I am a marginally profitable SNG player). They offer better selection but also better players (I had mostly bad luck recently but I also just flat out got outplayed a few times). It was partly a pride thing but eventually it finally dawned on me to play on a different site where I was winning 50% of the SNGs I played (a VERY small sample size but the players are also especially bad).

5) This may not be helpful for you but I like to read a new poker book if there's one out there after I hit a serious losing streak (or reread an old one). It helps you get back to the fundamentals that you may have strayed from and keeps you from dumping chips while still working on your game.

6) Play on a new site if you're getting crushed elswhere. Other players DO adapt to your style and it never hurts to start fresh. This also allows you to look for new sign up bonuses and/or rakeback which can help smooth out the bumps a bit.

7) Try to play when you're feeling fresh and alert. I've got a baby daughter I take care of so I'm NEVER fresh and alert but when I've got to go to work I've got to go to work and I have made certain adjustments to my game because I know I'm always going to be tired. I prefer to pick a number and quit when I'm ahead because I know I'm already tired and playing at 90% (at best). Maybe it's rude to hit and run but I like money and who cares if people call me names when I'm gone? Staying to play while games are good is another key (but notice when the fish bust out to be replaced by all the sharks hoping to catch the same piece of the action you are) but I'd suggest quitting if you add 10-20% to your bankroll if you're unsure how your concentration is (Chris Jesus Ferguson had a good bankroll article you might want to look up). Also try reducing the number of tables you play at once if you're having trouble making good decisions.