[*TT*]

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If you start with a wheel draw and brick on 4th, you should often play if you have any reasonable suspicion someone started light.

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Regardless of what you should do, this is what 90% of players will do, and if hero's 8 is in the door then 99% of villains are calling a bet on 4th (it might be 100% since TT doesn't play online). Thus, you can't figure on taking down the pot on 4th like ever in this hand.

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what makes you think I don't play online? Its true that I am not playing Razz as much as I was last year, but I always played online much more than I did live. I stopped playing Razz as a core game because its a factor of profitability. I can play more Hold'em tables than I can Razz at the same time.

Now lets get back to the original post. They call it "defending vs bring-in" for a reason, problem is Chips wasn't defending because the villain wasn't stealing.

Peeling vs a stealer getting the right odds makes sense to try to outflop him, peeling vs a guy who has a strong hand (which most people need to have to complete on 3rd here) is horrible. Peeling vs either situation when your opponent will always call 4th is a dubious action. Remember you must out flop an opponent who started very clean and is prone to calling on 4th 2-streets in a row, thats 24:1 against that this perfect storm happens (I think this is correct - not positive, need to spend the time with Excel to assure my calculations are correct). Yuck.