[pzhon]

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You consistently misrepresent what I've claimed


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I don't see that. I responded to an incorrect statement of yours,

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The content of many courses in the U.S., especially science and math courses, is pretty uniform. Often the very same texts are used. You can't take calculus at the University of Louisville and only be taught half as much as someone taking the equivalent course at an Ivy League school.

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There is nothing logically wrong with this idea, but it doesn't describe this universe. I have given examples showing that it is indeed possible (in fact, common) to be taught less than half as much (or less in a full year class than in a one semester class at an elite school), and often the texts used are quite different.

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pzhon: If you want to take it easy, go to Harvard. If you want a challenge, try to learn the same material at Iowa State University, where you have to learn most of it yourself at the library or from the internet.

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philo: People don't want to believe that it can be easier to get the A- at Princeton than at Iowa State, but it can be.

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pzhon: Even if it is easier to get an A- at an Ivy League school than a typical state school, I would still bet that an A- at an Ivy League school represents more understanding on average than an A- at Iowa State.

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Now you accuse me of misrepresenting you with that statement. I don't see that I did anything of the sort. You made a misleading statement. I pointed out that the statement you made did not have the consequence that would be relevant to this discussion.

An easy class, where you just show up and participate in relevant discussions of deep ideas and then write a paper about one of those deep ideas, may teach you much more (and may be expected to teach you much more) than a pain-in-the-ass class where you have to complete a dozen tedious assignments about trivialities. So what if it is easy to get a good education at an elite school? That's part of what people pay for, in money or blood/sweat/tears to get in.

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Here is what I'm claiming, and this is the last word I'm going to say on the subject. If a student at Iowa State gets an A- in a class, let's say "Social Psychology," and a student from Harvard gets an A- in "Social Psychology," that does not by itself mean that the A- from Harvard was a harder grade to earn, or that the student from Harvard necessarily had a higher level of academic achievement in that particular class than the Iowa State student.

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So, all you are claiming that is correct is that there are occasional exceptions to the idea that high grades at elite schools generally represent more understanding than equally high grades at mediocre schools? Great. If anyone thought there were no exceptions in the messy subject of education, they stand corrected.

In general, getting an A- in an undergraduate mathematics or science class at Caltech indicates a far greater grasp of the relevant material than an A- at Columbia, which in turn represents a far greater grasp of the relevant material than an A- at Florida State University. While the average grades may be lower at FSU than at Caltech, this does not adequately describe the difference between typical graduates of FSU and typical graduates of Caltech. Grade inflation may be present more at some schools than others, but in my experience, it's not enough for GPAs to be comparable across schools. Hiring someone with a 3.7 from a mediocre school over someone with a 3.5 from an elite school based on the GPA alone would be a mistake.

Some people would say this is not necessarily true outside of the sciences. However, I think the reasons for the differences between elite schools and mediocre schools still apply.