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Old 09-21-2007, 12:14 AM
drzen drzen is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Default Re: Razz article in Sept magazine- 5th street is a value bet!

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No, actually it isn't. the Jack with the 8-smooth draw is about a 6% favorite on 5th (ignoring the board display advantages that add to your lead imo). If the Jack catches bad and villan catches good on 6th, you're only about a 3:1 dog.

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Your analysis here is correct, and the same point is made later in the article: [ QUOTE ]
If he folded on 5th, then I'd be shipped a pot of 7 big bets having had only 56% equity in it (which is why it was a semi-semibluff since my draw to an 8 perfect was actually a small favorite on 5th street).

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So it's never claimed that the c/r is a true semibluff, but it's clearly not a value bet either.

According to Wikipedia, a value bet is "A bet made by a player who wants it to be called (as opposed to a bluff or protection bet). This is typically because he has a superior hand that he expects to win at showdown, or a very good draw for which he can increase his pot equity by more than the amount of his bet." IMHO this definition is a little too narrow, since many value bets are made in a spot where the hero would prefer the villain(s) to fold, but isn't likely to get that result.

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Really? I think that's an idiosyncratic definition. This was not a value bet exactly because we prefer a fold. It's true that there's a sort of inbetween bet you can make, where you are rooting for a fold but you think you probably have value if you're called, but it really needs another name.
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