[budblown]

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Matt, given the video evidence of what happened. I know it was a correct "ruling" given the current guidelines. However, can you honestly tell me you think this is the most REASONABLE action, given the circumstances? If so, please explain how this is the most viable option.

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Quite simply it is the rule, TDA Rule #9 states

"All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all betting action is complete."

The dealer did his job by opening his hand. I totally agree this guy was trying to muck his hand and tried to say he was tying to turn it up. If JC would have one this hand it would have been mistake.

Matt

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I have the feeling you would rather not answer the question, but just in case you missed it...Do you agree that the rule itself, which has been stated as fact to be enforced to deter collusion, is more valuable than allowing hands to be pulled from the muck that were intentionally folded allowing a player to awkwardly pull back their cards and push their chips forward, as he is obviously reversing a mistake he has made?

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So let me get it straight, on a called all-in bet with NO MORE ACTION you think it is OK for the worst hand to win?

Matt

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No, the decision should be made before the result of opposing hands are complete. When the player making the decision to muck his cards, nevermind grab a handful of chips and hand them to Tran (in this case), he should be forfeiting his right to win the pot. It's like this.....The rule is in place to prevent collusion. Any reasonable argument will conclude that collusion is still very much possible, even this this rule in place. That being said, these people who eventually realize they've made a mistake by folding, whether it be by another player speaking up, or by realizing the've made the best hand after they've folded, need to be held accountable.

There is nothing more awkward for a poker player than to watch someone foolishly trying to grab back their hand and simultaneously jam his chips into the pot and act like he was calling the whole time, imo.

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Agreed that there are other ways of colluding and chip dumping. However, what would you classify as worse, bringing an all in hand that was mucked back or letting people chip dump? I don't need an explanation, just which one you think is worse.

This question is for JohnnyG, Matt Savage or RR preferably all 3 as I would like to know if this is feasible. What if there is a way to prevent collusion/chip dumping and kill the hand at the same time. Instead of having the hand still be live when the dealer turns it over, why not have the hand be dead but still flip the cards over. This would then prevent the colluding/chip dumping and punish the person for mucking, instead of rewarding them, when they intend to muck and then get lucky. Because I'm sure we all agree that the rule in the cash game is ideally the best ruling in regards to mucking, but the need is still there to prevent the collusion/chip dumping.