[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
Grandnu, I thought your line was weak/tight, lacked acknowledgement of the information received throughout the hand, and is symptomatic of a weak tourney's player approach in that weak tourney players simply don't know how to make the most of their good hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I was in the same camp as most everyone else in the hand, from what I've read of others posts. We all put Villian on a huge range of hands, some that we beat, some that we didn't.

Villians min-check-raise on the flop and then check on the turn basically confirms his "donkness". But, the danger with donkeys is that they're unpredictable.

I know plenty of them who will call that 500 chip bet on the turn with just a flush draw. And when they hit it on the river, try for a check-raise again.

If Villian had turned over the 6/8 or two hearts on the river, we'd be condemning Hero for his terrible play on the river. I think we're being a bit too results-oriented here.

I still think that our opponents range of hands on the river is too large for us to "value bet". Any bet we make essentially commits us for our remaining chips. With 1800 chips already in the pot, and it's checked to us, we can see if we win a nice pot without putting our tournament at risk.

I still don't believe that the 600 chip bet that some suggested on the river is worth it. Some players said they'd bet 600 and then fold to a check-raise. So they're spending 2,400 chips to win 600 (the 1800 in the pot they'll definetely lose by folding, plus the extra 600 they invested).

And for those who advocated betting 600 with the intention of calling a push, they're risking their remaining chips (around 1600 or so from what I recall) to win another 600 chips from Villian, and possibly be sent out of the tournament.

I think the "value bet" on the river applies more to a limit game, rather than a NL tournament where you can't just reach back into your pocket.

Yes, Hero did very nicely for himself this time. But most of the time someone with 10/10 isn't going to pay off your push, but someone who has you beat will be sending you packing. And Villians range of hands was so large that many of his holdings would have been improved by that river.

Also, may I remind you, that two of the masters went with the river check as well.

I'm all about accumulating chips, but I think the risk:reward ratio for a river bet just isn't +EV in the long run in these situations.