[mikeca]

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so you dispute that we have an equity edge in the CO with 89s versus 5 bad, loose live limpers?

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I did some experiments with PokerStove to try to understand how much of an equity edge 98s really has. It looks to me against 5 player that are playing 50% of their hands preflop 98s has no equity edge. Against players that are playing 66% there is a small equity edge and it gets larger as the opponents play more. It looks to me that raising 98s for value requires really bad opponents. If 5 limpers to the CO is normal for this game, the raise can be for value.

For 86s it did not look like there was an equity edge even over players playing 85% of their hands.