Re: Fun w/ ATs
the dude, do you reckon that backdoor flush draws come in pretty often? i always figured they came in about 3-4ish percent of the time which i guess you could call 1-2 outs or so (2 if you figure on implieds), and i was always under the impression that we should count them as about 1-1.5 outs to be safe, since sometimes they come in and still lose to a paired board (although this is rare).
i certainly wouldn't consider a bdnfd to be somehow a strong holding, although i do agree with you that your bdnfd can be used in conjunction with the other parts of your hand to end up adding up to a modest draw. combined with your gutter and potentially tainted overs i'd give you several outs, although i find it hard to know for sure.
i think a range of 4-8 outs on the flop seems safe.
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