View Single Post
  #10  
Old 08-28-2007, 11:34 AM
QTip QTip is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: OH
Posts: 6,131
Default Re: PNL Study Group Day 6: Position/Hand Reading/FIP

OK. I do have several things I'd like to bring up/ask in these sections.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]1. I think position plays a key role in how good your implied odds are. In a later section of the book (top of page 126), factors that increase implied odds are listed (in what I'm sure wasn't designed to be an exhaustive list) as:

1. Money behind
2. Loose opponents
3. Disguised draw
4. Draw to the nuts

I think position plays a key role there too, and I just wanted to point that out and make sure I'm thinking correctly as well.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2. Top of page 80 you say that position has more value as the stacks get deeper. You give the “easiest to grasp” as control over the last (generally the largest) bet. I’d be interested in hearing some of the reasons that are considered harder to grasp.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3. Hand # 7 in fundamentals in practice. I FINALLY found where this was in the book! “You might delay a round if a large # of cards could ruin your hand, provided you could still get all in on the turn or river. In this hand, only a few cards were really bad, so reraising the flop was the right idea.”

OK. This is a concept I know has caused a lot of confusion in quite a few posts I’ve seen. It reminds me very much of SSHE concept of waiting for the turn to raise confusion that happened a # of years ago. At any rate, I posted this hand a couple weeks ago . Where I was trying to apply this concept. I also remember reading another thread some time back (which I can't seem to locate atm) where someone had top two against 4 opponents showing interesting (something like a red 56 on a monotone black 456 board) where much discussion was had between waiting and pushing it on the flop. I'd really like to get some more details on this concept. Perhaps we could see an example of when to wait until the turn when a large # of cards can hurt you. Matt was kind enough to reply in my 99 hand I posted and said:

"QTip you've got to raise that flop big. too many cards can hurt you, you have good equity now but may be sussed if a diamond or straight card hits, and there's a lot of money already in the pot relative to the remaining money."

Here's what I gather from that:

raise flop big = I'm committed to the pot right now. I think this may be different than top two since my hand is quite a bit stronger (Man...I wish I could find that other old post. I remember seeing grunch replying in it and so forth....)

too many cards can hurt you = That's what we're talking about here.

There's a lot of money already in the pot relative to remaining money - ok...that's a big factor

Also, people were talking about how there were too many opponents to wait. To me this is a double edged sword..cuz the more opponents in the hand, the more likely someone is to already have a big hand (QJ or whatever..there are a ton of hands that are better than mine already). However, also the more opponents there are, the more likely we are to have someone drawing...so, there's a bit of an oxymoron or whatever there.

At any rate, I'd love to see a couple examples of when to wait vs. when to push it on the flop.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4. Hand #10 We have AQo and raise, the co calls and the button reraises, we fold. Which I think is a good play. However, I'm wondering if you change this if the co folded and only the tag button has raised you. Are you calling then?
Reply With Quote