[cynic757]

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the word PUA, and the PUA community seems to be associated w/ more ideas and concepts besides the completely obvious trio of dress nice, be confident, be interesting. If this is where it ends for you, perhaps PUA isn't a good word to describe yourself. Maybe you guys can coin a new word, (Moral) MPUA.

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I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I suspect that the notion/widespread belief that PUA is "immoral" is based on the fact that the guy is not "himself" when he approaches women, right? That he creates a "facade" (which Cardo "detests") or uses canned, rehearsed material, or flat out deceives or lies to his "target." Amirite?

I think the response to this is that guys are not 100% honest in their interactions with women NOW. Your average guy does not walk up to a girl he wants and say "I really want to have sex with you" or "I really want you to be my girlfriend" or whatever it is he wants.

And why not? Because he knows it doesn't work. Instead, he adopts a "facade" of the nice, friendly, non-threatening non-sexual guy, the bumbling nervous guy who manages to win the girl's heart in the movies by "being himself."

The PUA response is that THAT FACADE DOESN'T WORK EITHER. Nice non-threatening guy doesn't attract women.

So if being 100% non-facade and truthful doesn't work, and nice non-sexual guy doesn't work, then why not try something else? Confident, non-needy, interesting guy seems to work a lot better.

NO, it doesn't work on ALL women (as Cardo ridiculously points out, as if that invalidates PUA entirely). But it sure works better than 100% non-facade honesty, or nice non-threateningness.

MOST women like sex but want to have sex with men they are attracted to AND they don't want to be thought of as slutty either. So there are games that must be played, e.g., "Would you like to come upstairs for a cup of coffee?" Now, both parties know what that means. Does that make it immoral?

PUA is just an attempt to understand the way sexual interactions work and to understand that if there's a game to be played, it should be played well.

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Perfect response.

OP, please comb this carefully.