[Zygote]

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Hah I'm not playing games. It'd be like if I said "anarchism is marxist communism" and then got upset at you for playing games when you corrected me.

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your first comment was justified. your continuance is no more than nitpicking.

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Statement one: "Iraq was wrong, because the system was forced.
Statement two: Invading countries and trying to force them to have the sort of government we want doesn't work well.
I don't see how the two statements are equal in any way. Do I really need to elaborate?



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you need to elaborate because i think this will be very telling.

Are you saying going to iraq to instill democracy was right then? If not then why?

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That's a huge topic and I'm not going to get into it right now. I just entered this thread to argue against your more absolutist, black/white statements.


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this is the crux of the debate. iraq was wrong because of the force factor. our government's today are wrong for the same reason.

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Of course Democracy alone isn't going to work miracles. No system of government or lack of government will. To be a good form of government it merely needs to be good in comparison to the alternatives. So for this to be evidence of the lousiness of democracy, we'd have to compare it to something else. Maybe as an experiment we can invade another country with a sectarian rift and force them to have no government. Then we can compare it to Iraq and see which works better. I'm being facetious of course, my point is just that evidence does not work the way you're suggesting it does. We need both an experimental group and a control group to compare to. If you look at History I think you'll find that the "best" societies have been democracies. That's debatable and not certainly not conclusive that Democracy is the ideal system, but it is the sort of empirical evidence you brought up.

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we can already compare saddam's iraq to a democratic iraq. i dont think theres a clear winner and that pretty bad for democracy proponents.

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I thought invading the country, overthrowing the government, dismantling the army and occupying the country created the chaos.

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They didnt dismantle the governmnet. They transformed the government from saddams style governance to democracy. The sectarian violence has nothing to do with the US. they are fighting each other internally for a reason

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I'm curious how you would bring about these property rights, since they can't be enforceable by your philosophy?


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I never said they can't be enforced. The problem today is that they are breached. The US should dismantle the government, return public assets to the citizens in the form of equal equity shares. Taking away the government will stop the social rule and free individuals to run their social and economic lives in their own dynamically unique ways.