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Old 02-20-2007, 04:40 AM
CurryLover CurryLover is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: England
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Default Re: Review of Pot Limit and No Limit Poker by Stewart and Ciaffone

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I was hoping for more insight into starting hands and play after the flop than "scoot it all into the middle".

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What!!

Some of the discuss in of later street play is extremely advanced. The "scoot it all into the middle" quote is from a section of the book in which Ciaffone is addressing the structural differences between PL and NL Hold'em. More particularly he is discussing how drawing hands can sometimes be much harder to play in (deep stacked) PL games, as opposed to NL games. What he's saying is that even premium draws (e.g. straight flush draw with 2 overcards) are often difficult to play in deep-stacked Pot Limit if you are unable to get all your money in on the flop, since - assuming you miss on the turn - you will be out of position with only one card to come, and your hand loses a lot of value. He is saying that this contrasts with NL because in NL you can, if you choose, simply get your whole stack in on the flop with your premium draw - probably through a check-raise push (this is where the phrase "scoot your stack to the middle is used").

What he is actually doing here is trying to get to the very essence of one of the crucial differences between Pot Limit and No Limit. One reason that many people consider PL to be a more skillful game than NL is precisely because of structural differences like this.

If all you took from this section is that Ciaffone talks about pushing your whole stack in on the flop then I am afraid you have missed the whole point of the discussion. But also, this is just one little section. There is a great deal of discussion of post flop/later street strategy throughout the book, and the "scoot your stack to the middle" phrase in used only once, in one particular section.

As regards your wish for "more insight into starting hands", I think this is rather unfair. Ciaffone has a brilliant little section on starting hands in PL/NL. He uses a discussion of how the value of starting hands changes in PL/NL when compared to Limit as a means to discuss what different starting hands are hoping to 'build'. I thought this section was really well written. But also, remember that starting hand selection is much less important in (deep stacked) big bet poker. If you hoped for tables of starting hands a la Sklanky's LIMIT hand groups then you are thinking about NLHE in the wrong way.
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