[Michaelson]

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There are times to limp but it's usually best not to.

If it's folded to me with 33 OTB, for instance, and one or both of the blinds are very very short I'll sometimes limp. I'll also limp behind a bunch of other limpers sometimes with small pairs, suited connecters and suited aces and kings.

I can't think of many other occasions, though.

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why not just raise and call their shove getting like 4:1 and gamble

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The problem isn't calling a shove preflop, necessarily, it's that when you're called the stack sizes are very awkward. In particular the effectiveness of c-betting is diminished greatly because it's so easy for shorty to shove over the top. Sometimes when that happens I lay down the best hand, and sometimes I call with two outs. limping avoids these spots, and sometimes lets you turn the tables and put villain in similar spots.

That's how I look at it anyway. You probably know better, though, seeing as you once cussed out my screen name on these forums [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Edit: BTW, I overemphasised the shortness of stacks required. I meant stacks around 20bb to 40bb.