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You're arguing semantics, Henry. The reason you don't want children is because you are selfish. It's all about you. How your life will be affected, how it will be a burden to you, how bored you will be.

You have been told the positives. You've been told how positively life-changing children are, but you don't believe it. All you can see are the negatives, which of course there are, but we are telling you they are far outweighed by the positives. You simply refuse to see it. Why is that? Because you're selfish. You don't want to see it.

That's cool, man. You are who you are. And with your attitude, it's doubtful you'd make even a mediocre parent. You can justify it by semantics if you wish, and if it makes you feel better. But a spade is still a spade, even if you insist it's a shovel.

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For most people, having kids is a selfish act. That list that was given was definitely selfish-driven. Just because Henry doesn't want to have kids, doesn't make him any more or less selfish than those who want to have kids.

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I thing people need to be careful about reading things in from a few words or or jumping to conclusions too early. I think that is one of the things that is a truism in poker.

Actually I didn't want to have kids. My wife was hitting 30 and it became a tremendous priority for her. I was just about to go to graduate school and had the prospect of being (virtually) unemployed for 5 years (in a foreign counrty) - this was not particualry appealing to me.

Moreover, I had a terrible family life as a child where I was beaten physically and abused verbally growing up. My mother broke a broom over my head when I was 11 and one time beat me so hard with a leather belt that the buckle tore stripes in me and caused me to bleed all over my chest, back and buttocks- I couldn't sit down without wincing for 3 weeks.
My dad frequently told me I was good for nothing and wothless and that he regretted having me and that I would never amount to anything.

On top of this my parents divorced, so I was not particulary excited about building a family and I was terrified that I would be a substandard parent. I haven't spoken to my mother or brother for over 6 years. My father passed away 15 years ago.(Before we had kids)

I decided to go along with having kids, b/c it was either that or get divorced b/c otherwise I would have to live with someone whose dreams had been devestated.(When we got married 5 yrs earlier kids had not been a priority or desire to my wife -things changed).

I think having children was the best decision I have ever made. I have not regrets and never will. But it is an adventure and that adventure is not for everyone.

I agree with you that Henry not wanting kids does not necessarily make him selfish or narcisstic. But why then does me having kids or listing their benifits from personal experience necessarily make me selfish? This I don't understand.

It is interesting that you immediately thought that me having kids was selfish. I find this rather inconsistent from a logical standpoint.

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I think it's only inconsistent if you look at "selfish" as being a negative and equal in meaning to "inordinately selfish". Having kids so you can turn them into victims is inordinately selfish. Having kids so you can raise a family is selfish; not the same thing.

For the record, I think your list was great. I raised two kids and I can agree with all that you wrote. My objection was to RG's assertion that Henry is inordinately selfish for not wanting to have kids. I respect Henry's position more because he has at least given the subject thought and consideration. As opposed to most of us, who (myself included) are handed a script that we simply read from.