[HerbieGRD]

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Why are we worried about villain taking the betting lead here? Against tricky opponents I generally prefer that they have the lead because they tend to bluff off lots of chips when they perceive weakness. I was more worried about giving a free card to beat me if I had the best hand on the flop

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Right, so unless you have a read that villain is hyper-aggressive, giving a free card here is bad. I would think standard line check - bet 3/4-pot, check-check, bet-call.

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I guess my real question about this line is why is it better to give the free card on the turn instead of the flop if I am planning to give one at some point in the hand anyways?

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1) We can take the pot right there

2) People pay for flush/str8 draws w/ 2 cards to come WAY more often than on the turn

3) If they pay for it on the flop and miss, we can charge them again on the turn if we're not pussies

4) There are a lot more scare cards than any club, any card higher than 8 (other than a Q) sucks too

5) Why are we planning on giving a free card at some point in the hand? I rarely plan on that...

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So it seems that consensus is that barring something weird/stupid from villain or some kind of really sucky turn card we are planning to felt 2nd pair here bet/calling flop and/or pushing turn?