[bills217]

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For starters, the right to food and water is easily demonstrable to be inseparable from the right to life

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Again, what is the "right to life?" Where does it come from? (This is not the same as self-ownership.)

(Edit: In our abortion discussion, you will note I never argued for any sort of "right to life." Mainly because it doesn't matter what I think when such a large number of people clearly disagree. It's really just my personal preference, anyway.)

I am asking you to substantiate your assertions. Right to health care, right to sustenance, etc., are observably not supported by a very large number of people. Not nearly large enough to qualify as axiomatic. I suspect a poll of people on this message board would be 60/40 against a right to even basic sustenance. While I realize this message board is a highly skewed populace, the point is, you cannot pull those things out of the blue without a VERY large percentage of people who agree. I guess you can make the case that those things SHOULD be axiomatic (basically arguing that everyone should agree with you), but we aren't there yet. (And hopefully we'll never be.)

When I talked about ACism being the only logical belief system, I was referring to as opposed to modern US party politics, and I conceded that pure socialism may come close (I am admittedly not an expert on the matter, I was a chemical engineering major and am now in finance), but that it stems from what many, many people consider to be a very undesirable set of first principles, consisting of all these various "rights" you keep mentioning that are totally subjective and even general positive-rights supporters disagree on (after all, it's just a personal preference, really). You cannot compare even a right to basic sustenance as axiomatic versus self-ownership as axiomatic. There is no comparison.

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As long as it requires (vast amounts of!) outside enforcement to make it work, it's a positive right.

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Then who is obligated to do what? (Hint: No one is obligated to do anything.) What do you mean by "outside?"