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the message of "I can hit someone when they upset me or do something they shouldn't" isn't one I think kids should get.

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I dunno, I think the message of, "If I do something I shouldn't, I'm going to get hurt" is a message most people could use more of. I acknowledge the argument that mental pain can be worse than physical, but there's plenty of evidence of all kinds that physical punishment can be deterrent without being debilitating.

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RDH, I'm not sure you've understood the point I was trying to make.

Let's say you whack a kid for doing something he's not supposed to do. Maybe he learns that he's not supposed to do that. But now he sees his younger sister do the same thing. Can you really blame him if he smacks her?

In my opinion, it is very difficult to use corporal punishment to deter kids from misbehaving without giving them the idea that it's okay to hit others who make them upset.

-McGee

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I think kids are smarter than this. I know there are people who don't want to use anything they consider violent, but they still use techniques that if an adult used them would be considered violent. I mean a time out given from one adult to another is called kidnapping or false imprisonment, it is a crime. Forcing somebody to stay in their room is kidnapping if one adult does it to another. The important thing is context. It is OK for one adult to lock another one up if he is a jailer and somebody is lawfully sent to jail. It is not OK to lock somebody up just because. Likewise it is more than OK to use violence to defend yourself and kids. What if somebody tried to forcibly kidnap a kid - would a parent not use violence to resist it? Well, violence is pretty damn good in that situtaion in response to something that horrible.

So, IMO context matters and I agree with Boris. A good parent who smacks a kid justifiably is not creating a sociopath. A bad parent using emotionally abusive but physically non-violent means can screw their kid up. And I think kids can tell the difference and can learn when physical force may be OK. IMO it isn't hypocritical to teach a kid he can't hit people unjustifiably while smacking the kid occasionally. He knows the difference between what you as a parent can and should do and what he can do to/with peers or siblings. The kid can't give his sister a timeout if she upsets him, just as he can't hit her anytime he's upset.

This is also not to say discipline has to be physical. But as Boris said, it does have to be reasonable coming from a parent who loves the kid. If those things are there the particular technique is less important IMO.