[GeeBeeQED]

The issue here is the card room owner sure does hate to lose rake. They hate to lose rake in the tourny or the live action that follows or on other nights. They want to take rake from players if they are cheating or not. They still benefit from raking the game. They get so tied up in not offending anybody at any time (because of the rake they are after) that the game begins to slip. I've seen it with dealers also. They don't want to enforce basic rules on the good tipper. The infractions grow. Pretty soon your card room has a reputation that quietly spreads through out the local poker community. A reputation it deserves.

Collusion like "Lets check it down". The dealer should instamuck the person that said it. If the other player agrees prior to the dealer stopping the situation, that hand should be mucked too. There can be no debate about this. I would even consider ejecting them from the room on the spot, no finish. I've seen other posters say they would bar the player also. With that I have no argument.

Don't dance around the issue, don't give them a chance to "change a little" to avoid embarasing the card room manager with their more obvious moves. That's silly. You have to take decisive and firm action. Understand you should have never let this get started to begin with. This will make it even more uncomfortable to deal with now but that is the breaks. You have to protect your card room. You've identified a problem. Set and example that will be clearly understood by everybody. When you toss one of them (or all of them) out the door, there will be no misunderstanding about the integrity of your game and you as a person.

I've greatly reduced my play in "grey" card rooms. Make no mistake that is what we are talking about here. I love the regular action close to my home. But, the problem is these unregulated games are seldom run by anybody with the concern or the testicals to keep them clean. They end up dirty at one level or another. It starts to feel like wheel spinning to me. I want to learn to beat the best level players in the world. Not how to overcome cheaters, that's a waste of my time.

Dave